All relevant events in operation Market Garden re-investigated!

http://marketgarden1944-2014.pre-jump.nl/

 

I do get very tired and not a little angry at the mud slinging at the Market garden operation. AS one that took part in that operation I am dismayed that our lads gave their lives to get to the North. Does no one that read these pages ever think of those that gave their lives in the drive North.
I lost mates and took part in some horror canal crossing.

 

Sapper, you and your mates have my heartfelt thanks for your participation in what was a brave Operation. There is always risk involved in war. and I'm in the very fortunate position of never having had to make decisions that risk my or other lives. Because of lads like you, your mates, and my grandfather.

 

I think my old grandad was involved in the ground operation too,although I don't know exactly 50 Div's role.? Anybody help.? Thanks,Lee.

 

Our Route North was a twO pronged affair. Our group set off to the east of the main thrust North. Out onourt own , we got cut off from our supply line and had to live on captured German rations CRAP....

 

Thank you for your courage and sacrifice. It's your heroism that we celebrate and why this forum exists. Unfortunately hindsight analysis can leave a bitter taste.

 

They moved forward as a reserve through the corridor and finally ended up on the Island north of Nijmegen: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/49363-nijmegen-bridgehead-iiss-pz-corps-counterattack-in-october-1944/

 

According the Wikipedia:

• 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division, a World War II division of the British Army
• 50th Infantry Division (Poland)

Which one was grand dad in?
The 50th armored of the US was not formed until after the war.

I'm assuming he was with the 50th Northumbrian.

If so, there is a decent write up in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50th_(Northumbrian)_Infantry_Division#Market_Garden

Regards,

Jack

 

Does anyone know if they just failed to find out that the Panzer division was re-fitting near the British landings or was it something that couldn't be avoided?

 

None of both : there was no PzD refitting near the British landings:the role of the 9th (10th) SS PzD in the failure of MG is mostly mythical .

 

The thing that most seem to forget about Market Garden was that this operation was set in motion with much more constraint than any other operation post D-Day.

Its window of opportunity was short, and dependant on the fact that supplies to run it were available only for a limited period. SHEAF could not supply Patton and Monty at the same time. There was much more to be gained from Monty's operation, so he got the nod.But only for so long before the supply situation of the other allied armie's reared it's ugly head again. eisenhower's "Broad Front" policy meant that all of these formations had to have roughly equal allocations to be able to advance and keep contact with one another. "Market Garden" was meant to be the "Pursuit" phase of "Overlord", and it was based on faulty assumptions about likely opposition, not to mention the Airborne contingent had a wonderful case of "Go Fever".

Market Garden was the only operation tabled that gave these airborne forces the opportunity they craved. Remember that the man responsible for setting in motion this operation, General Browning, was a paratrooper first and foremost, and he suffered from "Go" fever worse than anyone. It was Browning that swept aside objections and made sure Market Garden went ahead.

Don't forget, too, that a failed operation will have no-one claiming responsibility for it after the fact. Career minded soldiers wouldn't want to be seen to have anything to do with a 'turkey'.

I believe that had Market Garden been given absolute priority of supply, that the time constraints might have been totallly unnecessary, and this operation could have matured as it should have, rather than being classified as a shot at the breeze that missed it's target, before Jeeves the Butler stepped in to remove his Lordship's hunting piece and replaced it with a nice cup of tea.

Those First Airborne boys fought tooth and nail to make it work. Many went to Oflag IVb on the Baltic coast. Still dirty and battleshocked, they were informally inspected by German officers, (their entourage included none other than SS General Wilhelm Bittrich himself), full of admiration for their achievements; those same German officers did not offer so much as a passing glance at the thousands of other prisoners present. First Airborne gained an amazing reputation from their enemies as well as the people at home from Arnhem Bridge.

It seems there is SOME glory to be had from war after all.

 

I have not read this tome. However the title "little sense of urgency" sits as alongside "Factbook" as well as "Fox news" sits with "fair and balanced"

History does not deal in "facts" packaged conveniently into 198 pages. History is made up of interpretations of source material.

 

That's right enough but it's worth pointing out that SS 'Battalion Krafft' certainly played a significant part in defence against 1st Airborne at Arnhem. True, they were only a training and replacement battalion, but they were still the SS.......

 

What I've learned in recent years (and I should credit Robert Kershaw's very good 'It Never Snows in September') is that the Battle of Arnhem was an important operation but that, for the Germans (i.e. Model and subordinates) the main focus was almost immediately on blocking the 'Garden' advance to Arnhem. The Germans gathered up various units to form ad hoc Kampfgruppen and called whole units into the battle from the part of Germany that bordered the axis of advance. The movement of Allied men, armour and material was limited to a few good roads and the Germans spared nothing to 'interdict' those routes. The effectiveness of the German response (particularly as, a few weeks earlier, there was no German front line in the West, according to most historians) does not detract from the bravery or ability of Allied soldiers.

 

As I said before, I get angry when I read about the loss of urgency.That is pure bull. We strove might and main to get North, even though we were cut off behind us, and could not get supplies. I have been on the Nijmegen Arnhem road under severe shell fire .....Not nice....
The critics should also have been with us when we crossed the Escaut canal at night (One in the morning) in a desperate attempt to get there, and lost good mates. That assault crossing was something never to be forgotten.... bombed, shelled, mortared and machine gunned. all in the light of burning houses flickering making it even worse.... and i lost my best mate on the banks of the canal to battle exhaustion.


Being cut off, we had nothing, yet we pressed on....The wounds I sustained prevented me from my post war ambitions, for seventy years I have had to live with the results of the battle in Holland...And those results are severe... certainly not collected by a lack of urgency.....
The Market Garden Association is now defunct by the way....
Those that sit in their arm chairs and criticize 70 years on. without any battle experience, are the very worst of critics. For they are ignorant and read what others write.I have been on the Nijmegen Arnhem road under severe shell fire. Any one that believes this story about a lack of urgency, should have been with me in the assault crossing at night across the Escaut canal. Men gave their lives in that attempt.You should read the book I wrote in aid of BLESMA. it cost £11 and tells it all,

 

Sapper, "lack of urgency" from some generals, certainly not from the men who had to do the fighting and suffered.

 

There was no lack of urgency from the allied generals : that's only one of the countless MG fables .

 

many men gave their lives in the hectic Market Garden . There is so much utter rubbish written about that operation. The fact that supplies had to be brought all the way from Normandy was a drag on proceedings. But everyone "bashed on" without hesitation. Some companies just had to stop when they ran out of everything..... But the lack of urgency smacks if the arm chair generals that constantly attacked Monty from their comfortable chairs at home. One thing is certain, more men lost their lives, due to the extreme haste in the way we went into action.....

The critics are mostly influenced by the film, a bridge too far Like so many films, they present a cockeyed view that often has little connection with the truth ...Ir indeed of what actually happens. Films are not made to present the truth Never. They are made to make money and that ensures the content will be set by profit and often .......prejudice. Oddly enough, there are areas in the USA that think that they, and they alone fought in Normandy onward.

 

Sapper,

Thank you for your sacrifice and the fact that you are prepared to share with us. There are few of you left and even less on the internet passing on your first hand experience which is worth more than so many books written by people who have no idea what you and your comrades went through. Far too many are prepared to believe that the British Army spent most of their time drinking tea and waiting for someone to decide what to do next. The freedom of Europe was paid for in the blood of far too many young men of many nations and we should thank them all for that.

 

Time may have passed but NEVER my admiration and resolve to thank for what you and your mates have done for us today! Thank you World War II Veteran!