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Kurdistan?

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by KodiakBeer, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Why not?

    When the middle east got divvied up by the British after WWII, nations were created that had little regard for the ethnic and religious differences of the people living there. Iraq, in particular, makes no sense as a nation. It should have been three nations - a Kurdistan in the north, a Sunni nation in the middle and a Shia state in the south.

    That didn't happen. And it didn't happen again when Bush and company invaded.

    Now, the entire region is plunged into destruction and we still haven't woken up to the real issue. These people will never live in the same nation unless that nation is ruled by a despot like Assad or Hussein who won't hesitate to murder thousands to impose "order."

    Why not arm the Kurds and back them for their own state in what is now northern Iraq and parts of Syria?

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/10/exclusive-rand-paul-arm-the-kurds-to-battle-isis-and-radical-islam-give-them-kurdistan/
     
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  2. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    In practice if not officially that's what I kind of expect to happen. Given the way events have progressed in the regioin recently I kind of expect the Kurdish parts of Iraq and possibly Syria to gain a fair amount of autonomy. Having them be nominally part of another country may make it more pallitable to many in the region and give them a bit of cover as well. The Kurds may well be satisfied with this as well, from what I've read they are a practicle people and in practice this may be one of the better solutions.
     
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  3. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    More wishful thinking I am quite sure there are more than enough parties that would opose this project. Also first you need to quiet that whole middle east affair, before any more thoughful and fair projects could be started IMHO.

    You also say "by the British" weren´t there more countries involved in this whole "new order" of the middle east (Iraq is indeed a prime example that it wasn´t very clever). At least France which had possesions (colonies?) there, too (iirc).

    Also I oppose arming anyone there it only pours more oil in the fire and weapons will fall into wrong hands (same as Ukraine btw).
     
  4. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Yeah, the French had a hand in it also - Lebanon, Syria.

    It's not just wishful thinking though, as LWD points out it is already happening. The west would do well to recognize this instead of trying to keep these artificial borders imposed on the region. The only one who would, or could, object is Turkey. We owe them nothing since the current regime is tacitly backing ISIS and some of the other Sunni extremists.

    Syria is already gone. It no longer exists. The same is largely true in Iraq. The government only controls a small portion of the country, the rest is carved up into Sunni, Shia and Kurdish enclaves.

    This is the reality to day.
     
  5. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    Syria was plunged into chaos purposeful imho. The so called "west" wanted to get rid of Assad, but not because he was such a bad dictator I suspect :) I had spoken to couple from Syria (nice people) who had not much bad to say over Assad, but more about the so called rebels.. which later turned out to be partly islamist scum (and was integrated to ISIS terrorists which we fight to this day).

    Btw. Turks and Kurds in the past had some violence battle on the open streets here and the police which I pay with my money needed to prevent they all killed each other. Can they not at least do their battles in their own countries and not in these were they are as "guests" (guests should behave better imo)
     
  6. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    http://www.timesofisrael.com/syrias-assad-tightens-grip-after-four-years-of-war/

    AFP — Despite Western and Arab hopes he would be consigned to the dustbin of history, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad enters his fifth year of war with an increasingly tight hold on power.Alarm over the sweeping expansion of the Islamic State (IS) jihadist group in Syria and Iraq means that international priorities have shifted away from Assad’s removal....
    “Assad has improved his position internationally. The US, EU states and others are no longer demanding his immediate departure
     
  7. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    His removal is no longer a priority because he's being effectively removed.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    They look ready for a nation.


    [​IMG]
     
  9. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    I think it usually is a can of worms when you get involved...I say stay out of everyone's business, unless absolutely necessary...most of these places have no strategic value....my main point is, I don't see anything effecting the US much if we stay out.....that's the way of the world....
    .plus, we don't have the money to go here and there...when I think of a lot of places the US fought post WW2, I don't think the US economy would've been effected if we stayed out....
    this next line may be a can of worms, but what country has done the most fighting in the most places post WW2?? the US? what have we gained economically? I guess that should be another thread?
     
  10. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    That's pretty much the point. Let the Kurds mop up the Islamic crazies in the region, with some weapons and logistic support from us. We can get along with the Kurds. Most of them are Muslim, but not of the crazy variety. There are Christian Kurds, Yazidi Kurds, Jewish Kurds - they don't care what religion people are. They hate Islamic fundamentalists.
     
  11. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    ISIS seems to be the big problem right now. Quite weird that many people travel there to fight with them, and as well several people have wanted to return home but ISIS has cut their throats, the last one publicly executed was killed by a teenager. religion or dictatorship? Join us or die.
     
  12. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    A lot of American, Brit, Canadian, Aussie vets are now joining the Kurds to fight ISIS. I'm following this on a Facebook page. It's quite inspiring.

    The Kurds are remarkable people. At this point they are directing their efforts to liberating isolated minority groups - Yazidis, Christians, Jews, that are trapped in ISIS territory.
     
  13. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    So none of you have objections about dissicating one of our Nato allies when the Kurds will certainly claim Turkish Kurdistan too ? Turkey is about the only country in the area with a so called stability. Would you jeopardize this and create chaos there ? Which minority is next to claim independence ? Which country will be dismantled after?
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    As there are always twists and turns in every road. It appears that the Turks may be changing their minds in light of the growing ISIS threat.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/17/turkey-kurdistan_n_5504309.html

    Choosing the lesser of two evils perhaps...
     
  15. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    I have no objections at all. The present regime is tacitly backing ISIS and should forfeit any consideration in such a decision. All of the arms, money, supplies and fighters feeding ISIS are passing through Turkey, with Erdogan's blessing. Turkey massacred thousands of Kurds and displaced hundreds of thousands in the last century.
     
  16. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Maybe , but they are still our allies and one shouldn't forget they have been helpful during the cold war and during the first Gulf War and not blame a people because of their leader .
     
  17. rkline56

    rkline56 USS Oklahoma City CG5

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    Concur, KB. Great comments here. I will be watching with great interest. Her Biji Kurdistan. Those are some brave men and women to stand up to those murdering thugs. Ez Zagros. Sev Bash.
     
  18. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Were our allies - past tense. They are now allied with ISIS, the sworn enemy of all civilization. If Erdogan were deposed I suppose a deal could be worked out with Turkey, but as it is now I wouldn't even consider their wishes.
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
    I always like that one first.
    Then I think of the PKK & their past activities & go 'hmmm'.
    Then I think of sons of bitches being our sons of bitches.

    Then I think 'Lordy, I do hope the grown-ups are handling/will handle this one with as much forceful common sense & delicacy as possible'.

    Grim, innit.
    Borders are likely going to have to flow at some point in any future 'solution' to this mess.
    The sort of raw power-broking agitators who rise up at such times are rarely all that supine when it comes to borders and territory.
    'The Kurds' (an uncertain term) are fighting to keep the ISIS wolf from the door, but it's hardly surprising they'll also be fighting with a long hoped-for state in mind.
    On balance, I hope they get it somehow, the C20th being a pretty shit time to have been 'a Kurd'. I just hope they can get it under a less corrupt or extremist leadership than is common in those parts, without pissing too many other local fruitloops off.
    Currently too early to call, but it'll certainly get really 'interesting' if territorial gains against ISIS start to represent significant chunks of the Levant.
    (I do like the fact 'The Levant' is back in common usage... something of the Lawrence of Arabia about it.)
     
  20. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Thee are no borders left. Syria is already gone, and Iraq is on the way. No matter what the maps say, these "nations" are now broken up into ethnic and religious enclaves.

    The Iraqi government is a corrupt bunch of pirates. Assad will be bolting off to some villa in France if he isn't caught and burned alive. The Shia are an arm of Iran and they'vealready taken over the south. The Sunni (ISIS) make the Nazi Einsatzgruppen look like a social club. And then you have the Kurds in the north of Iraq and parts of Syria.
     

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