USMC and women in infantry

Figured I'd go ahead and start this in the stump, since that's where it will probably end up.

Good 60 Minutes pieces on the subject. At least on this occasion the Marine Corps insisted that they actually participate so they could actually understand the issue. They appear to understand and produced a fair/balanced piece. Please watch in order so you get the background:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/60-minutes-team-tries-out-for-the-marines/

Why is Infantry training so hard?

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/why-is-infantry-training-so-tough/

 

And now for the main story:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/a-few-good-women/

 

When they say one woman has passed, they're talking about the 1st day only. None have gone more than several days of the 86 day course.

 

The usual BS to satisfy some pinko lesbian feminist...some people will never learn we don't live In a perfect world...and never will..

 

yes, I saw that, ...tango yankee CAC....Price will tell you, we had women that outranked us, but couldn't pass our PFT, Physical Fitness Test, and that is inequality! their PFT standards are lower...needless to say, my respect for them, was a lot lower than for males.....1980s PFT consisted of sit ups, pull ups, and 3 mile run....the WMs,--women Marines, just had to hang on the bar for so many seconds...most male Marines did well more than the minimum required, especially on the run...
I don't recall dealing with too many WMs,--also known as BAMs-terms we used for female Marines-...BAM, is Old Breed term, ......If I did, I would've done what I was ordered, but with extreme distaste...we had some male Marines that wouldn't do well on runs, and they would sometimes be ''harassed'' and/or ordered to do extra PT...the silent rule was, if you can't do PT, --physical training-- such as running, humping, etc, you were not cut out to be a leader, period....and your PFT scores counted on promotion somewhat....remember what I said, our bi-pods weighed 42 pounds...you have to be able to carry that around, or the unit suffers and can't perform...if the ''leader'' can't keep up on a run or hump, no respect for him/her
most of the officers I remember were PT fanatics, and were in great condition...no malice intended to women...that's the way it is in the military, if you can't cut it, no respect for male or female
before searching, can someone guess what BAM stands for?

 

All female military should be in support roles and every male in a combat role...if the military is low on recruiting then not even females should be brought in for the support roles (that's still sexism)...most support roles should be given to lower paid and much easier to come by Defence civilians...and all or most Military males should be in combat roles...too much wage money is spent on non combat areas and roles...money that could buy bullets and platforms...
I still say this female in the military stuff is still more about low recruiting numbers than any 'enlightenment' from the military...that and having to bow to a one term beaurocrat who wouldn't know the military if she fell over it...An academic arguement that should never be manifest in the real world...

 

What if a man can perform better in a support role than a woman or visa versa? Civilians are not always cheaper and their are sometimes very good reasons for haveing the support be military. For instance in Iraq and Afghanistan the "support" personel often found themselves in combat. There are a number of significant issues if you have civilians freqently involved in combat operations.

 

In any occupation, a certain level of competence is required. If you cannot achieve this, then you are not suitable for said job.

 

I know does that count???

 

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned during one of our previous threads.

 

As in the the previous thread, I'll state there are women capable of beating a significantly large percentage of the male population.

Such individuals, however, are more likely to seek a life excelling at sports, as the qualitative pyramid is much narrower in female sports.

Justyna Kowalcek, Poland, came in 70th place of a total 15,800 (men ca 13,000) starting in the this year's (2015) Vasalopp, a Cross Country skiing event covering 90 km (60 miles).

Note I'm not advocating separate or lower standards, just that individuals be given the opportunity to prove their worth.

 

I believe there is a huge difference here--this occupation deals with very lethal ''tools''....killing is the occupation....I see a lot of people keep their jobs when they are total slackers, incompetent, etc...like you say, a certain level is required...they are not suitable, but they ''get by''....in the military, people's lives are at stake...

 

you, of course you know,...we used WMs, ..BAM is older...did you use it?? do you think we should say, or is it not PC?

 

No, I actually used it but only once. We were at Parris Island, 1st or 2d day during of forming. We were standing outside, in a line waiting to go up a ladder well to have some admin types do paperwork on us. There was a platoon of 4th Battalion recruits marching buy and the guy behind me whispered, "hey they got women here?" I said, "those ain't women, those are BAM's". The female Drill Instructor heard me, I don't know how, and she halted her platoon, came over and asked me what I said. I told her and she proceeded to PT the dog doo out of me. When she was done, she walked back to her platoon, right faced them, said, "look there ladies, all that d*i*c*k and you can't have any!" It was actually kind of embarrasing to be objectified. She then faced them back to the front and marched them off. One of the forming DI's walked up to me, got in my face and yelled, "What the fug did you say recruit? You supposed to open your nasty sewer?" I told him ("Sir, the private said those aren't women, those are BAM's, sir!") and he couldn't help himself, he kinda chuckled, shook his head and said, "Gd'Deeam recruit, you are some kinda dumb, now ain't you." Then walked off.
I never used that term again.

Note: Women enlisted Marines are only trained at Parris Island, and are trained in a seperate training battalion (male enlisted Marines are trained at both Recruit Depots, San Diego and Parris island). 1st, 2d and 3d Battalions are male recruit training battalions and the 4th is all female. At the time I was there they had an abbreviated training cycle, and male recruits even pulled mess and maintenance for them. Subsequently, they were put on the same training cycle as the males, but train seperately due to the difference in physical capabilities. They do all the same things as the males, but at the female pace, to the female standard and in things like MCMAP against other females

 

The question is, would it be worth all the money spent to run hundreds of females through to find the one or two that can make the standard. Secondly, you're assuming that the persons the female will be competing with are an average cross section of the male population. The vast majority of general population males can't meet the standard to enlist, then for completing boot camp, then there is only a percentage of these males that can meet the standard at the infantry course.

As per your analogy, a more accurate comparison would be the top 10 percent of male athletes vs the top ten percent of female, not the top female athletes vs all male athletes. You also need to use not all sports, but those that are more explosive and place a premium on size, strength, power and endurance. In other words gymnastics and swimming would be less comparable than boxing, or rugby.

 

great story price... the kind I enjoy reading........why do you think the men and women are separated at the Olympics?.....
LWD, if you know it, go ahead..

Slime, aren't males generally larger and stronger?? and, even if some can outrun males, generally, their upper body strength is not comparable to males for combat/military endurance?? sure, there are some, but they are the ones that usually work out a lot....if the males they can beat work out also, a lot of those males would be just as good....
the humping, etc is not easy for medium and small males, and sometimes the big guys had trouble....it wasn't ''easy'' for just about everybody

 

And as with the previous discussion, i mentioned the differences in sex are not just physical...Women can get angry and lose it...but they are not born fighters. Even professional women who box can barely put out a decent punch (the biggest problem is a lack of technique - they havent the bodies for it).
And as has been pointed out the Olympics should shut up all the "in a perfect world" dreamers...Men and women cant and SHOULDNT compete against each other...thats in bloody sport...in cut and thrust battle? forget it!

 

very good point CAC......we had a thread about conflicts, and someone pointed out females fighting...sure they do, but the majority of conflicts, fights, murders, are committed by males!
however, other countries have females in combat roles, but I'm no expert, nor read much, on it.....how do they fare?..do they do a lot of humping with mucho gear and weapons?...like the Falkland boys, who did some badass humping ?.....

 

Broad-Ass Marine. I had to look it up as no one was brave enough to say. I have heard worse terms!

 

yes, Toki, I always thought it was a weird term...doesn't sound right.....but that was contrived sometime ago