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FIFA in the news

Discussion in 'Sport & Athletics' started by lwd, May 27, 2015.

  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Did I get the acronym right?
    Is this the forum to discus it? Or should it be in the swamp.
    Heard of the arrests on the way in this AM.
     
  2. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    Seems like the right place to me.

    I am not terribly surprised by the charges and arrests. This has been rumored for awhile. They must really have enough this time. Very embarrassing.
     
  3. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Was going to post a thread.
    FIFA is so worse than the NFL. There is corruption, then there is CORRUPTION. And soccer seems to be the worst of all sports when it comes to all around criminal activity (because it is so popular).
    Would bet there are some entertaining soccer matches somewhere, as surely as there are entertaining women's basketball games sometimes.
     
  4. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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  5. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    The Russians are protesting: non unjustly
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    ??? The statement I heard about the Russian protest had nothing to do with justice but sounded like a bit of preemptive propaganda. Care to tell us just what was justified about the Russian protest.
     
  7. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Why would the US have the right to arrest /asking the arrest of Europeans,who had done nothing illegal in the US ?

    Why would the US attorney-general have the right to say that the US justice would not accept corruption in the FIFA?

    If the Russian justice would ask the arrest of an american banker,what would say the US attorney-general ?

    If I am not wrong,the US refused the jurisdiction of the ITJ of The Hague for crimes committed by US soldiers in Iraq,thus ......
     
  8. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    They used U.S. banks to launder the money. That's illegal. Hence, the U.S, are now involved. We love arresting people here in the states.
     
  9. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I see you avoided stating just what the Russian protest were.

    There you go making fallacious assumptions again. They broke US laws as pointed out above and in other ways as well or at least that's what the prosecution will try to prove. Guilty pleas are making their job a bit less difficult though.

    Why wouldn't he? We have a right of free speach here in case you hadn't heard. Of course since FIFA has a presence here that gives him the right to take official action as well.

    That would depend on the charges and the evidence. Looks like the FIFA charges and evidence were enough to convince the Swiss to not only arrest and extradite the men but start their own investigation into some other corruption charges with regards to FIFA.

    Thus what??? The US refusal was perfectlly legitamate and this is an entirely different matter in any case. Ah, I see now you had to try and side track the issue.

    In sumation your contention as the justification and/or justice of the Russian objections is yet to be proven. It's not even clear that any of the above even had any bearing on said protests since you haven't even stated what they were.
     
  10. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    The whole thing proves (as usual) the arrogance and hypocrisy of the Obama administration and the hysteric anri-Russian climate in the US .

    Arrogance : who is lynch thinking she is ? The world minister of justice ?

    Hypocrisy :what about the scandal of the 2002 Winter Olympics where curiously no one was condemned ? And,are there no bribes from certain US cities to have the presidential conventions ?

    It is obvious that the aim of the whole thing was to attack Putin,while there were other reasons enough to be critical of Putin : why would it be the business of Lynch if Putin was giving the FIFA top money ? It is his money .

    The essence is that the FIFA is an international commercial business and if they decide to give country A the world championship because it is giving more money than country B ,that's their business .

    Why would it be wrong that Quatar was chosen because it was giving money ?

    The location of all international/national sport events is depending on money : a French city that will have the passage of the Tout de France must pay a lot of money .Why would it be different for Quatar ?

    Tomorrow the Tour of Belgium will pass in front of my house,but the arrival will be 2 km farther with the neighbours,because they are richer .A third town failed to have the arrival,because they are even more poor than we .

    It's all a question of money .

    And as usual you are unwilling to grasp the comparison with the IMT of The Hague : US refuse (what is their right) to allow US citizens to be judged by a non US tribunal,but claim the right to judge non Americans whom they accuse to have violated American law outside the US : the usual application of double standards .

    And,is there a law in the US forbidding non Americans to accept money from a foreign state ? Because: this is the subject : FIFA members have accepted money from a foreign state .Is this illegal ? If tomorrow Iraq would propose the directors of a US construction company a lot of money if the company would go to Baghdad to reconstruct the city,would that be a crime ?
    No one in the US was hurt by the decision of the FIFA to give Quatar the world championship,thus,it is not the business of the US justice .
     
  11. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    The question is : was the money illegal ? Was it dirty money ? If not,Lynch has no argument .
     
  12. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member

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    The documentation and investigation has taken years to formulate. Do you really believe that this is for nought? That they are wasting their time on this scandal. This is no conspiracy theory. It is well known that FIFA is a fishy organization. Now it's official.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Rubish. It had little or nothing to do with Russian until they started thier rather hysterical protestations. Inforcing the law isn't a matter of arrogance or hypocrisy that I can see.

    Only in the fevered imagination of Putin and his symps.

    What about them? Weren't those accused brought to trial? Certainly they were condemed at the time. As for the presedential conventions offer some evidence and we can discus it but just issuing random accusations is incredibly lame.

    ???? How was this an attack on Putin? In any case bribing officials of a corporation which FIFA is to take actions that are not in the best interest of the corpoeration is illegal as is accepting said bribes. The FIFA officials are accused of breaking the law so far I've not heard that Putin is charged with anyting or even being investigated. Chances are even if he did bribe them and there's evidence to prove it he will not be charged.

    The problem wasn't that they were giving money to FIFA it's that they were giving money to FIFA officials to take actions that may not have been in FIFA's best interest. There is a bidding process for getting the various events and that process is suppose to be followed. Of course your little rant makes no sense at all because the cases for which they have been charged have nothing to do with either the Quatar or Russian games.

    No it's you who are unwilling to see the true nature of the US policy. If warcrimes are suspected to have been commited the country on whose part the individuals are acting is suppose to be the one to try them. The US policy has always been if there is sufficient evidence of a war crime the individuals will be tried in a US court. If there is insufficient evidence then they shouldn't be tried. What's more people have been tried and convicted of various counts in US courts so the system works. There's also a considerable difference between military acting on a countries behest and individuals acting on their own or a cooperations behest. US law doesn't shield the latter from being tried and even extradyted from the US for such crimes. So as usual your argument lacks both a factual foundation and logic.

    Whether it comes from a foreign state, a corporation, or an individual is not of much import why they are recieving said money is. In some cases it is illegal in other it isn't.

    From what I've read it's not clear whether or not they have been accused of accepting money from foreign states. The Brazilian who has already pleaded guilty in a related case and the American who was running the US branch of his organization and is currently awaiting trial were accused of bribing officials to maintain the media rights to various soccer matches. Nothing said about governements there.

    That's not what the charges are about though. A better analogy would be if a US construction company offered a bribe to a Baghdad official to make sure they got the bid no matter whether other companies bidding on the construction had a better bid or not. And yes that would be a crime under US law.

    That is niether correct nor is it accurate. First of all as I pointed out the current charges have nothing to do with the Quatar games. So it is rather irrelevant. However I believe at least one US city was bidding on the games and if it was bribes that made the difference between whether or not the games were held here vs Quatar then yes people in the US were hurt by the bribes. Furthermore there are teams in the US that are part of FIFA and the games are followed here by some so actions such as this which have negative impacts on the sport of soccer also have negative impacts in the USA. That's why with the exception of Russia pretty much everyone has condemed the FIFA officials. They have hurt the sport of soccer.
     
  14. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Bribery is illegal. I.e. both giving and recieving bribes is illegal. Laundering money is also illegal. So it sounds like Lynch does have a pretty strong argument.
     
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  15. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Of course,the Fifa is fishy, as is the IOC,but that's not the point :it is question of big business,where sport is tolerated as long it's no obstacle for the real aim of the Fifa,the IOC,etc ,which is : to make money :

    2014 : Fifa revenues :2.096 billion USD, expenses : 1.955 billion

    It is obvious that the sources of a lot of this money were doubtful: bakchiss,extra-legal fees, creative imagination,etc. No one cared.But,if the members of the board of directors were trying to get their shares, the reult is a lot of hypocrite crocodile tears from people who are benefiting from this business,such as politicians .

    This one (about the Olympic Games of Atlanta) is a good source :

    Olympics corruption allegations investigated (by Irvin Molobsky)


    And what was the result of these investigations ? A hush up ? Of course not : the Clinton administration would not allow a hush up .The US justice department would not allow corruption by the IOC .


    About bribery : there is only bribery if an official is receiving money from a businessman, not if a businessman is receiving money from an official .Quatar and Russia are doing what they want with their money .

    During the cold war,the US (by intermediary of the CIA and other distinguished organizations) were giving money,a lot of money to individuals in Europe: as usual politicians,journalists,businessmen,.. Corruption ? NO .
     
  16. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    "They have hurt the sport of soccer."

    Only ,because it came out ,besides the sport of soccer is secundary :as long it did not came out,the Fifa (and that's the only thing that's counting) was not hurt .

    Who has hurt the sport of soccer ?
    Lynch ,of course.If she kept her mouth shut, nothing would have happened .
    Besides,within a few weeks,everything will be forgotten,because Lynch will steal the lime-lights again with the disclosure of an other scandal . It will boost her ego and will help her political career .

    Some people have the strange custom of moving a dunghill,but,as everyone knows,when you are moving a dunghill,the result will be even more dung .
     
  17. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    I am shocked...shocked !

    Is NOTHING sacred ? Next you guys'll be trying to tell me that there's something 'iffy' about Olympics finances, or that the banking profession rigs markets..... :shifty:
     
  18. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    We have the classic scenario (nothing changes)

    1) A new unknown politician (Lynch) who want some publicity by appearing on TV (it gives her the illusion of being important) before falling again into oblivion

    2) An old crocodile (the president of the FIFA) who want to remain president til his death

    3) An ambitious candidate who want to be president of the Fifa (the Jordanian prince)

    What happens ? By accident (haha) just before the reelection of the old crocodile, a "scandal" is disclosed : some people of the FIFA are receiving bribe : a lot of indignation of number 1 and number 3 .Shocking : bribe .

    Of course,everyone knows that bribe is the liquid that makes the FIFA motor turning .Without bribe: no FIFA .

    Who is getting better from the disclosure of the scandal ? Lynch :it will boost her career,and the Jordanian prince ,who can hope to unsaddle the president .

    I forget : it gives a lot of people the occasion to start the usual Russia bashing
     
  19. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    1)Why should the process be followed ?

    2)That's not true : the appearance of Lynch on TV was no coincidence: it was timed

    3) NO : the FIFA officials were condemned because the whole thing came on the surface

    4) NO : Lynch has hurt the sport of soccer;OTOH one can argue that not soccer was hurt but the FIFA .
     
  20. squidly the octopus

    squidly the octopus New Member

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    Assuming Blatter is re-elected in a few hours, as he probably will be, the only remaining question is whether or not any of those arrested can or will roll over on him. If not, then little to nothing will change. It's not exactly news that FIFA is corrupt. But Blatter still has the majority of constituents in his pocket (or at least presumably he does, we'll find out for sure shortly), and that trumps everything, so long as there are no charges against him.
     

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