WW2's Last Dogfight

Anyone else actually heard of this?
"Throughout the extensive air-to-air combat missions of WWII, no one can dispute the last – and most unique dogfight of the war. The fight ensued on April 12, 1945 as two Americans in a low-flying piper (an L-4 Grasshopper) spotted an enemy spotter plane during a routine scouting mission near Berlin. The enemy aircraft was a German Fieseler Storch.

The two aircraft were not prepared for fighting. However, the Americans – pilot and co-pilot Lt. Duane Francis and Lt. Bill Martin – took advantage of their air position above the Germans, opened their doors and used their service revolvers (.45 caliber pistols) to begin firing on the enemy spotter plane below. As the German aircraft maneuvered to evade enemy fire, one of its wings touched the ground and caused them to crash. The L-4 Grasshopper proceeded to land safely close-by, captured the Germans and provided first-aid.

This is the only known WWII aircraft to be taken down using only pistols."
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/last-dogfight-of-wwii-in-europe-was-between-two-spotter-planesfiring-pistols-at-each-other-the-german-aircraft-was-destroyed.html?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com

 

Maybe of the war in Europe, but there was air combat right up to, and even after, the announced surrender of the Japanese on 15 August 45.

As for the event, yes, it occurred. I presume the author of the piece knew little of US Army sidearms, the .45 cal service pistols mentioned were M-1911A1 Colt type automatics, not revolvers.

Rich

 

Thanks, just noticed I forgot to put "in Europe" at the end of the thread title....
h34r:

 

Cool story!

Edited to add: Don't they know a 1911 is not a revolver?

 

This thread is a reprise of this one.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?102141-Last-dogfight-of-WW2

Seafires from the Fleet Air Arm shot down eight Japanese aircraft on 15th August 1945, Japanese bitter enders on VJ Day

 

WW2's last dogfight in Europe...No, not by a long shot.

WW2's last dogfight for the 71st Armored Field Artillery Battalion...Most certainly.

WW2's most unusual dogfight...Definitely a contender.

Further, the "dogfight" took place on April 11th. Not the 12th, as reported in the article.



War History Online....The Daily Mail of the WW2 rags.

 

Last air to air action resulting in a credit to USN personnel in WW2 occurred at approximately 2:00 pm on 15 August 1945 when ENS Clarence A. Moore of VF-31 off USS Belleau Wood (CVL-24) shot down a D4Y near Hokoda airfield.

Last air to air action in WW2 resulting in credits to USAAF personnel occurred at approximately 12:15 pm on 14 August 1945. There were actually several pilots involved in an action which occurred near 33-30N, 132-00E. Those involved, all from 35 FS, and their credits were: lLT Dwight Hollister (1 Ki-84), CPT Raymond Meyer, Jr (2 Ki-84, 0.5 Ki-84 damaged), CPT Billy Moore (1 Ki-84) and 2LT George Steven. Jr (1 Ki-84, 0.5 Ki-84 damaged).

 

Meanwhile, in Manchuria...

Must've been something going on, surely?

 

It is certainly BS about that incident being "the last dogfight of WW2", but in defense of the article:

It should be pointed out that some members of the Commonwealth use the term "pistol" and "handgun" interchangeably. Hence, you have "semiautomatics" and "revolvers" that could both be classified as "pistols". The M1917 revolver in .45ACP saw service in WW2, primarily with second-line troops. It would not be inconceivable that the Grasshopper crew would have carried M1917 "pistols" and fired on the Storch with them. Sloppy writing for sure but it may not be "wrong".

As for this being the "only incident of a plane being brought down by pistols", I present the tale of 2nd Lieutenant Owen Baggett that has come up periodically since the mid 1990s: http://www.guns.com/2011/09/07/how-a-colt-m1911-a1-brought-down-a-japanese-zero-fighter/

 

In Europe. The article was just fine. It's the Historian that screwed up the thread title, I think he needs a week in the cooler. Without whisky.

 

The article "was just fine." Then, I presume that you did not notice that the pilot's last name was misspelled...it should be Francies.
Or, would you prefer that we now call you "KodiakBer" or maybe "KodakBeer".

If...By "the Historian", you are referring to warhistoryonline.com, then, yes, you would be correct. As their title for the article was
"Last Dogfight of WWII in Europe Was Between Two Spotter Planes,Firing Pistols at Each Other. The German Aircraft Was Destroyed". However, all warhistoryonline.com did was cut-and-paste an old article from armedforcesmuseum.com entitled
"Last (and Most Unique) Dogfight of WWII".

Now, i would direct you over to the 5ad.org website to read "The Amazing Story of Duane Francies"
http://www.5ad.org/units/Duane%20Francies.htm

Is warhistoryonline.com/armedforcesmuseum.com article still "just fine" to you? Or is it, IMHO, "piss poor journalism".

 

I just think the Historian should be severely punished because the whole thread has gone off the rails because of that single omission. We could leave him out of the cooler and take away his whisky. Or maybe he could just fall on his claymore to make amends. Claymores are pretty long but he could stand on a chair and do it. He's a Scot, so I'm sure he has a claymore.

Francis - Francies, meh! The important thing is that they shot down a German plane with one of John Moses Browning's greatest boons to mankind; The 1911 Gubmint .45. You can call me anything you want, except Mohamed.

View attachment 23033

 

Damn your eyes, Sir!

 

Despite the "unconscionable omissions which should be severely punished," I was entertained.

 

Wherever the article originates, it's a damned interesting bit of history, as is the story of 2nd Lt. Bagget above. Those guys in the little artillery spotter planes lived interesting lives. German AA soon learned never to shoot at them unless they relished having a dozen batteries dropping shells on them. That didn't stop riflemen and machine gunners from potting away. Those little planes were practically kites with an empty weight of only 765 pounds. They were slow and often low enough to be in good range of small arms. The cruising speed was 75mph, but they were often banking around at much lower speeds than that.

The Storch is actually a much larger plane, about twice the weight of the Piper L-4 and with a higher top speed (87mph for the L-4 vs 110mph for the Storch). The guys in the Storch must have been caught unawares since they could have simply simply outrun the slower American plane. Or, maybe they just didn't think anyone in a Piper would come in with guns blazing?

 

Le Fana de l'Aviation, issue April 2015 - The "myth" of the last combat - the story of this last 'combat' was first related in Cornelius Ryan's 'The last Battle'.

The last aerial encounters in Europe took place over Czech territory. On 8 May a Yak-9 accounted for a 9th AF F-5E, the pilot, Cpt. Nash flying a recce sortie over POW camps around Dresden when he was mistaken for a German Fw 189. Nash was able to belly land at Reichenbach, 40 km west of Dresden. The following day Nash's unit sent out more F-5s to look for him. Once again the Soviets took on one of the F-5s in the vicinity of Prague and shot it down. So the last aircraft downed over Europe in WWII was a 39th PRS F-5 Lightning shot down over Prague by a Soviet P-39 on 9 May ! Probably just as unique a combat encounter to end the war in Europe! This incidentally was the thirteenth 'victory' of one Major Vasily Pschenitchnikov of the 100 GIAP.

 

so, is it a myth?

 

At least to me dogfight implies that both sides are armed. I'm not sure shoot downs of recce aircraft count as such. Of course they would count as arial combat.

 

Now I am really confused Did it happen or not?

 

a 'myth' that it was the last combat - it happened ..but surely the last 'real' combat encounter was just as unique - P-38 vs P-39 !