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Zugsfuhrer (Sergeant) of the Austria-Hungary infantry ? Jagodić, ?-1941

Sergeant Austria-Hungary Austria Hungary WWI

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#1 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 11:10 AM

? Jagodić, ?-1941

 

He was my grandmas grandpa. She doesn't remeber his name but she has this two photos of him serving Austria-Hungary in the WWI.

 

A picture from the period before the war. He was a Korporal (Corporal) back then.

image.jpg

 

Another picture from 1917 with his wife and two daughters (my grandmas aunts). He was a Zugsfuhrer (Sergeant) then. You can see two medals on his left chest. The first one is the 60 years of Austria Hungary jubilee 1848-1908. The second one is the Balkan war medal 1912-1913. Currently I'm on a quest to find and buy those two medals because sadly I don't know where they are or what happend to them.

image.jpg

 

I don't know what was his birth year but I know he was killed by Croatian Ustashas at the very beginning of the war in Yugoslavia in 1941.


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“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#2 Skipper

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 11:49 AM

Great pictures . Croatians had the reputation of being the tallest soldiers of the Empire and often served in the Imperial guard because some of them were huge guys.I see your ancestor was tall too.   I suppose you are aware Zugführer meant he was in charge of trains. (transport,  logistics etc... ) 

 

As to the medals  check for a link. 

 

http://www.ebay.fr/s...groise&_sacat=0

 

Funny enough I found Austrian-Hungarian medals in Croatia at a fleamarket in Pula while I was on a holiday there. 

 

If you like Austro-Hungarian military, we have a Polish member   who digs up relics from Galicia and finds some tremendous things. 

 

 

http://www.ww2f.com/...from-dukla-pass


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#3 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:11 PM

Great pictures . Croatians had the reputation of being the tallest soldiers of the Empire and often served in the Imperial guard because some of them were huge guys.I see your ancestor was tall too.   I suppose you are aware Zugführer meant he was in charge of trains. (transport,  logistics etc... ) 

Thanks! You're right he couldn't have been in charge of trains. I know he was in infantry. Then he must have been a Waffenmeister 2. Klasse.

 

 

 

As to the medals  check for a link. 

 

http://www.ebay.fr/s...groise&_sacat=0

 

Funny enough I found Austrian-Hungarian medals in Croatia at a fleamarket in Pula while I was on a holiday there. 

 

I already found those medals on eBay but I'd like to find them at a fleamarket. I'm going to one tommorow morning and I hope to find it. Last time I went there I saw a lot of stuff from WWII. German helmets, wound badges, various uniforms, photos etc. 

 

 

 

If you like Austro-Hungarian military, we have a Polish member   who digs up relics from Galicia and finds some tremendous things. 

 

 

http://www.ww2f.com/...from-dukla-pass

 

I'm interested in anything related to history and especially the items so thanks for sharing that topic.


“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#4 Skipper

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:57 PM

How are flea markets in Zagrebs? Are they worth going? 


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#5 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 01:06 PM

How are flea markets in Zagrebs? Are they worth going? 

Ofc it's worth going. Zagreb's market is amongst the biggest in this part of Europe. I talked with a lot of merchants in that market and some of them were even from other countries like Bosnia, Hungary and Slovenia. Here's a picture of one of my favourite merchants and the stuff he's selling. You can see various medals, paper money, coins, watches, DDR hat and a Yugoslav firefighter helmet beneath it. It is a picture from the market's offical facebook page. You can see how big this market is on the picture.

 

10150671_10152500360999143_7818543837747


Edited by YugoslavPartisan, 29 December 2015 - 01:09 PM.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#6 Skipper

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:45 AM

That looks realy cool, I will put this on my list. I was in Croatia twice , loved the landscape, the peole and the food, hated the tourist business round it. While in Pula I walked into a squatted house by artist and met a great painter . I bought a painting from him. Much better than all the made in China crap. That's how I ended up at the local flea market there and bought quite a few interesting things there , mostly Italian and Austrian. 

When I was in Dubrovnic, it was extremely hard to find some authentic things. 


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#7 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:31 AM

That looks realy cool, I will put this on my list. I was in Croatia twice , loved the landscape, the peole and the food, hated the tourist business round it. While in Pula I walked into a squatted house by artist and met a great painter . I bought a painting from him. Much better than all the made in China crap. That's how I ended up at the local flea market there and bought quite a few interesting things there , mostly Italian and Austrian. 

When I was in Dubrovnic, it was extremely hard to find some authentic things. 

I'm glad you liked it in Croatia. We have a great tourist potential but our government only looks for their own interests. They sold everything after the downfall of Yugoslavia. Most of the factories, Croatian brands and sadly they even sold our national oil company to Hungary. There is no future for us young people, because there are no jobs. In last year over 150 000 young people left the country. We are dealing a serious "brain drain" and most of the population are old people.

 

If you ever come to Zagreb or anywhere near it be sure to contact me :)


Edited by YugoslavPartisan, 30 December 2015 - 09:35 AM.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#8 Skipper

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 12:51 PM

Thanks for the kind words. I belieive Croatia has a great potential. It is still a " young" country but the preserved landscape is actually a valuable asset and I believe you guys have good potential for the future. 

 

It's cool you have the objects from your ancestors. I have things from mine too. My grandfather escaped from a forced labour camp in Germany and got to Holland with dyphteria in 1945. He was healed in a German occupied Not Lazarett and worked in the laundry there when he recovered. He found many insignias from both sides and put them in a box . the he gave it to me in 2008. I even have his Ausweis. 


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#9 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for the kind words. I belieive Croatia has a great potential. It is still a " young" country but the preserved landscape is actually a valuable asset and I believe you guys have good potential for the future. 

 

It's cool you have the objects from your ancestors. I have things from mine too. My grandfather escaped from a forced labour camp in Germany and got to Holland with dyphteria in 1945. He was healed in a German occupied Not Lazarett and worked in the laundry there when he recovered. He found many insignias from both sides and put them in a box . the he gave it to me in 2008. I even have his Ausweis. 

Such an interesting war path. How did your grandfather end up in a forced labour camp?


“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#10 TiredOldSoldier

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:59 PM

I don't speak German but  always believed Zug was "section" so why would  a "section leader" be necessarily in logistics ?


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#11 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:10 PM

Actualy "Zug" means train in German.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#12 TiredOldSoldier

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 06:33 AM

Nierhoster on his organisational series on the WW2 German army translates "zug" as both train and "platoon" defined as the next lower subdivision of a company or battery. He also states that the 1st and 2nd zug of a unit were usually commanded by an lieutenant while the higher numbered sub units were commanded by a sergeant. There is usually no perfect equivalence of  units between different armies and a "platoon" could be anything from a pair of heavy tanks to over 40 infantrymen or an artillery gun section.

I believe the rank is still in use in the modern Austrian army and is an NCO not an officer.


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#13 SKYLINEDRIVE

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 08:11 AM

TOS is spot on! "Zugsführer" is the Austrian version of the German word "Zugführer", while the German word "Zugführer" could also be used to denominate an employee of the railway company, who is in charge of the safe operation of a train, the Austrian "Zugsführer" is only used to denominate a leader of a platoon.


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#14 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 08:53 AM

Thanks for the explanation both of you. 


“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#15 Tamino

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 10:07 PM

 

...He was a Zugsfuhrer (Sergeant) then...

 

...I suppose you are aware means meant he was in charge of trains. (transport,  logistics etc... ) ..

Well, well Skip. :eek:  I have always thought that German is one of your native languages, but now I'm in doubt.  I suppose you are aware that the word Zug, besides other possible meanings, means "platoon" too. Lieral translation of Zugsführer into English could be "platoon leader". In German language an equivalent of this Austrian rank is Obergefreiter. The word "Zugsführer" is still in use in Osterreischer Bundesheer. The closest translation into English is Master Corporal.

 

PS: Just now I've read responses of SKYLINEDRIVE and TOS. Not native speakers and yet they both understand multiple meaning of the word Zug. Thumbs up guys.  :cool:


Edited by Tamino, 31 December 2015 - 10:12 PM.

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#16 Tamino

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 05:24 PM

? Jagodić, ?-1941

 

He was my grandmas grandpa. She doesn't remeber his name but she has this two photos of him serving Austria-Hungary in the WWI.

 

I don't know what was his birth year but I know he was killed by Croatian Ustashas at the very beginning of the war in Yugoslavia in 1941.

This is interesting - my father also was Tito's partisan and was almost killed by Croatian Ustashas at the very beginning of the war in Yugoslavia in 1941. He got away from their hands by an excuse that he is on the way to report to the authorities as a volunteer.

 

But let me guess the age of your grandpa in 1941 when he was killed in 1941 - he must have been slightly over fifty at that time, a bit too old for combat duties. I assume he wasn't killed in combat. The ustashas must have executed him, haven't they? That was their habit: to murder innocent for no other reason except for ethnicity or Weltanshauung (ideology).  Please, tell us more.


Edited by Tamino, 01 January 2016 - 05:28 PM.

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#17 Skipper

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 05:24 PM

TOS is spot on! "Zugsführer" is the Austrian version of the German word "Zugführer", while the German word "Zugführer" could also be used to denominate an employee of the railway company, who is in charge of the safe operation of a train, the Austrian "Zugsführer" is only used to denominate a leader of a platoon.

 

Don't be in doubt Tamino. It's just that I'm not supposed to be aware of all the subtilities of   Austrian ranks . In English many Americans wouldn't be able to quote Britsh ranks equivalents. It has nothing to do with language skills, but I appreciate your additions to this thread. 

 

Btw: One of the official languages languages in Sky's country has Germanic origins  .  https://lb.wikipedia.../Lëtzebuergesch


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#18 Tamino

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 06:11 PM

Thanks for the info about Lëtzebuergesch language (dialect). I have tried to read it at that link and I could understand some of the text, at least the meaning of it. To me it looks like a Mischling between Dutch and Deutsch. I wasn't aware of that until today and was sure that Luxembourger are German speakers only. Thanks again for enlightening me,


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#19 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 09:09 AM

This is interesting - my father also was Tito's partisan and was almost killed by Croatian Ustashas at the very beginning of the war in Yugoslavia in 1941. He got away from their hands by an excuse that he is on the way to report to the authorities as a volunteer.

 

But let me guess the age of your grandpa in 1941 when he was killed in 1941 - he must have been slightly over fifty at that time, a bit too old for combat duties. I assume he wasn't killed in combat. The ustashas must have executed him, haven't they? That was their habit: to murder innocent for no other reason except for ethnicity or Weltanshauung (ideology).  Please, tell us more.

Yes he wasn't killed in combat. He could have been between 50 and 60 at the time. He was a Serb which is why Ustashas took him and other Serb men from the village aged 13-70 to a Jadovno death camp. Most of the people from Jadovno death camp were thrown into various pits (there are many pits in that part of Croatia) so it is possible that he was thrown too. 

If your location is correct you must be from Slovenia or Austria? I'm guessing Slovenia because your father was a Tito's partisan. 


Edited by YugoslavPartisan, 02 January 2016 - 09:32 AM.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus


#20 Tamino

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 07:56 PM

You should dig a bit deeper – it is very likely that your grandfather is a descendant of Serb priester Jagodić (Kuridža), a leader of mutiny against Turks in 1704 (please read more at the link below). Again this sad story proves how Croatian Ustashas were profoundly ignorant and primitive. They have murdered Sergeant Jagodić who defended their border from Turkish intruders and was very likely a descendant of a Serb who bravely fought for deliberation of Croatia in 1704. Just let me add to this that the greatest American "Croat", Nikola Tesla, originated from the same territory as your grandfather, was in fact Serb, a son of Orthodox priest.
I am located exactly at the Austrian-Slovenian border, on the Slovenian side. Proud son of Tito's partisan.
 

Edited by Tamino, 02 January 2016 - 08:38 PM.

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#21 YugoslavPartisan

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 10:13 AM

 

You should dig a bit deeper – it is very likely that your grandfather is a descendant of Serb priester Jagodić (Kuridža), a leader of mutiny against Turks in 1704 (please read more at the link below). Again this sad story proves how Croatian Ustashas were profoundly ignorant and primitive. They have murdered Sergeant Jagodić who defended their border from Turkish intruders and was very likely a descendant of a Serb who bravely fought for deliberation of Croatia in 1704. Just let me add to this that the greatest American "Croat", Nikola Tesla, originated from the same territory as your grandfather, was in fact Serb, a son of Orthodox priest.
I am located exactly at the Austrian-Slovenian border, on the Slovenian side. Proud son of Tito's partisan.
 

 

I've never heard of Kuridža before. It is possible that we are related but he was from Dalmatia and my grand-grand-grandfather was from the northern parts of Croatia so it is less possible. Who knows? Thank you very much for the info about Kuridža, I will definately dig a bit deeper. 

 

Yeah, Tesla was a Croatian Serb just like some of my ancestors. Tesla's famous quote was: "I am equally proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian fatherland."

Srečno novo leto! (Happy New Year!) :)


Edited by YugoslavPartisan, 03 January 2016 - 10:13 AM.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” ~ Epicurus






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