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USS Edsall

Discussion in 'Naval Warfare in the Pacific' started by Engineer70, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. Engineer70

    Engineer70 Member

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    I've always wondered about the last moments of the Clemson class destroyer USS Edsall. She started the war capturing a small Japanese vessel that was turned over the Austrialians for their commandos, but she also reported to the scene in northern Australia when a Japanese submarine was sighted and sunk in shallow water. I've seen some claims that Edsall helped sink it, or other say she arrived just afterwards-dropped a few depth charges-but the sub was already sunk by then.

    Her final moments she found herself alone with a damaged engine caused by a premature exploding depth charge, when she was sighted and engaged by Japanese battleships and cruisers. The enemy engaged at extreme range, but the destroyer dodged and weaved and avoid their rounds because of the range-she could identify their shots and move to avoid them. Supposedly, Admiral Nagumo became infuriated with the Edsall defying their fire that he ordered Naval planes to engage and they crippled the Edsall and the Japanese surface ships moved in to finish her off. A few survivors were reportedly taken from the water, but the rest were left to die in the waters. Those that were rescued were taken to a small POW camp in the East Indies where they were eventually executed and put into mass graves. They were uncovered after the war, but only a few could be identified because of their dog tags.
     
  2. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    A Blue Sea of Blood: Deciphering the Mysterious Fate of the USS Edsall - preview on Google Books.

    I never did find the family website for the ship.

    Snippit: http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/2265.html

    As for the submarine:
    20 Jan 1942
    EDSALL, ALDEN, & three RAN corvettes, KATOOMBA, DELORAINE, & LITHGOW combine to sink the Japanese KRS-class mine-laying submarine I-124 off Port Darwin, Australia after the sub attacked ships entering the port.

    Japanese naval story here: http://shipcomrade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1079
     
  3. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    A video of the Cruiser "Ashigara" which did participate.
    Eight of Edsall's crew were picked up by the Ashigara and deposited on Celebes Island and executed near Kendari.
    A Japanese propaganda newsreel showed her shelling a destroyer of the Edsall class.
    - I am not sure if this is or is not that exact film clip. It very likely is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhiBdgbGLdY

    Ashigara excerpt showing the Ashigara intro I post above. Identical bridge staff.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZB-9f487g

    Still photos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSTMHZihxd8
     
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  4. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    Tough slogging finding Japanese newsreels.

    This one is of the Akagi (and Kaga Aircraft carrier) whose planes participated in the sinking of DD 219 (The Edsall.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7evceEPMyaE

    This one too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmTVgRPbDS4
     
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  5. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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  6. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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  7. Engineer70

    Engineer70 Member

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    Thanks for your help, Fred Wilson, the video of the ships engaging a surface vessel is intereting, but it's hard to tell if it's the Edsall or not. One item that stuck out when I was researching the Edsall, after the war-L. Ron Hubbard, creator of Scientology, claimed that he was on the Edsall and they dropped him off on an island for behind enemy lines recon work and claimed to be the last man off the Edsall. So far, the Navy has denied he was ever on the Edsall or even on the islands he claims. He was sent to Australia, but in a few months time he was sent back because he pissed off so many people.
     
  8. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Corrections...
    The Ashigara DID NOT participate in the sinking of the USS Edsall.

    However, the Ashigara DID participate in sinking the HMS Exeter and chasing the HMS Encounter & USS Pope(Encounter was sunk, but Pope escaped - only to be sunk later in the day by Japanese carrier aircraft) on the same date as USS Edsall's sinking.

    The survivors of USS Edsall WERE picked up by the Japanese heavy cruiser Chikuma(and possibly a few more by the IJN heavy cruiser Tone - this has never been sufficiently proven though).

    USS Edsall survivors WERE NOT picked up by the Ashigara.
     
  9. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    They were there at or shortly after the battle, but ± battle participation and the photos and film of the Edsall sinking were taken by the Ashigara.
    See the exerpt from the book here.

    They are on record as having picked up survivors.
    Japanese source unknown. Reported here: http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/usn/DD-219.html

    The US account that dominates the historical "record" has often elsewhere been best described as propaganda - since no-one survived.
    It was not until 1952 that the first information came out of Japan, and most Japanese survivors information dates from the 1970's and is therefore likewise suspect although the consistency of narrated reports has started to overcome that.

    The history of both sides is rather clouded.
    No record of the Ashigara being anywhere near the battle at: http://www.combinedfleet.com/ashigara_t.htm

    Fyi also try using Ashikaga spelling in searches.
     
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Re the videos in Fred's post #3.

    The first video is a propaganda "mash-up", with all Japanese heavy cruiser classes(Myoko, Takao, Mogami, and Tone) putting in appearances. The gunfire excerpt is is practically indistinguishable, but I doubt that it would be of USS Edsall, as that brief footage was shot from aboard the IJN Tone.

    The second video is of the Ashigara at the 1937 King George VI's Coronation Review of the Fleet. As was the tradition, the World's navies were invited to each send one ship(17 foreign warships participated in the 1937 Review). The footage shows the IJN Ashigara, the USS New York, Soviet battleship Marat, and Germany's Admiral Graf Spee.



    Ashikaga???

    Why don't you try actually reading the book you recommended...You know...the whole book.

    Ashigara is mentioned only once, in the beginning, and, IIRC, it was pertaining to the film of a ship sinking, and not to rescuing any survivors.
     
  11. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    What does the fact that there were no survivors have to do with whether or not the account(s) are propaganda or not?
     
  12. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    If you read up on the accounts, a lot of folks seem to think the US reports were fabricated.

    Like I said, both sides of the story are said to be "rather" suspect, and by and large, from all I've read I tend to agree.
     
  13. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Being suspect does not make them propaganda and visa versa though. Propaganda is material presented in such a way as to support a particular viewpoint. Arguably the best propaganda is completely factual. In the historical context the fact that material may be made up is of far more weight than the use to which it was put although that can be of interest as well.
     
  14. Engineer70

    Engineer70 Member

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    I appreciate the help. Please, let us not allow this to get out of control. The book, A Blue Sea of Blood seems like something worth reading, but the reviews have me being cautious. The sad fact that several bodies were recovered after the war, but because we lacked the DNA testing, most of their bodies lay unknown. Perhaps they're the crew of the Edsall, perhaps not. We may not know.
     

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