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Churchill turning his back on Poland


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#251 Tamino

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 04:43 PM

Are you suggesting that German population from the present day Poland has committed a mass suicide? 2,100,000 people died of unknown reason just to make enough room for Poles?

 

What do you think we are? 


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#252 wm.

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 11:08 PM

Well if you had to ask, I think you are a man who knows less than nothing about WW2...

 

Specifically, that  the 2.1 million lived on territories belonging today to Poland, Czechia, Russia and even Lithuania. 

Well, I suppose this one is easy, the Poles killed all their Germans, and then traveled to the other places and killed all the Germans there.

 

And specifically, that about a half of that 2.1 million were men, drafted and sent to fight the war, and lots of them never returned.

 

And specifically that, during the few months of 1944 the war, fought exactly on those "disputed" territories, was especially brutal.

Only on the Soviet side they counted over million casualties - more than Britain lost in the entire six years of war. The Germans don't even know how many soldiers their lost.

 

Do you understand how brutal a war must be if on a small territory, over a short period of time so many people is killed and maimed? That the civilians had nowhere to go, were all ever the battlefield, and because of that they were dying as fast as the Soviet and Germans soldiers did. 

 

During the short Warsaw Uprising well over 200,000 Polish civilian were killed. The sieges of Breslau, Danzing, Konigsberg, Berlin were no different. 

This how true war looks, unlike that in Western Europe fought from high flying strategic bombers by people clad in layers of bullet-proof vests. Or from behind thousands of tanks over pulverized by thousands of guns and bombers German soldiers' bodies.

In Eastern Europe the war was real.

 

Poland and Russia have millions of missing civilians too -  bodies of those people were never seen, nobody saw how they died. They only thing certain is, they never were seen again. 

 

 

 



#253 m kenny

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:20 AM


 

But anyway, as it is said:

 

The people have appointed kings without my consent,
and princes without my knowledge.
They have planted the wind
and will harvest the whirlwind.

 

 

 

 

 

Translation: They got what they deserved.

 

How many Ukranians 'committed suicide' at the hands of the Pole post WW1?

 

Poles were murdered for sure but  then Poles did a lot of murdering themselves. One does not justify the other.


Edited by m kenny, 10 January 2017 - 01:26 AM.


#254 m kenny

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:31 AM


 

This how true war looks, unlike that in Western Europe fought from high flying strategic bombers by people clad in layers of bullet-proof vests. Or from behind thousands of tanks over pulverized by thousands of guns and bombers German soldiers' bodies.
In Eastern Europe the war was real.

I met a lot of Poles when they all moved to the UK recently. Without exception they all had an unshakable belief the world had done them wrong and all their problems stem from the actions of others. The above is typical of the response you get when you point out they were not exactly blameless themselves.


Edited by m kenny, 10 January 2017 - 01:35 AM.

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#255 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:36 PM

Well, you didn't say what it was all about, so it's hard to say.

 

But, as I understand it, it was about history, and you the professional lost a few discussions with ignorants. That's bad. Do something about it, improve you act, destroy them next time :)

 

It was "bullet-proof vests" because sometimes you have to seriously oversimplify things for the benefit of some members of the audience. It's like baby toys with their simple shapes and bright colors. It's for their own good...

 

 



#256 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:52 PM

Translation: They got what they deserved.

 

No, it means that the people who violate universal moral principles don't benefit from that, but plant the seeds of their own destruction. 

It's from the Bible. As a hard-core atheist I'm ashamed I have to explain that. :)

 

 

 

How many Ukranians 'committed suicide' at the hands of the Pole post WW1?

 

I don't know anything about it. 

The Poles and the Ukrainians were allies against the Soviets. 

It is true that, after the Easter Westerners regained their freedom, there were some brawls between them, because everything had to be created from scratch, including borders. When people can't reach agreement they fight, nothing to it. 

Some of the Ukrainian commanders fought together with the Poles against the Nazis in 1939.

Thousands Ukrainians were saved by the Poles in 1945, when the British wanted send them wholesale to the USSR - for certain death.



#257 m kenny

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:24 PM

.

Thousands Ukrainians were saved by the Poles in 1945, when the British wanted send them wholesale to the USSR - for certain death.

There was a program on UK TV not long back where the Children of  Polish Jews went back to Poland to visit where they were born. They were made very unwelcome in the villages they visited. They were subjected to outright hostility from the Poles  presently living in their old houses. It was clear they was no desire to tell them anything about  what happened to any 'missing' relatives they asked about. 



#258 Tamino

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:26 PM

There is yet another similar story. A friend of mine and a distant relative, born in Pomerania, Fritz, died last year. He was expulsed as a kid but had vivid memories of his childhood in distant Fatherland. Meanwhile, his family has settled predominantly at the south of Germany. He lived in Baden-Würtemberg, has established own family and has two great kids. A hard working, polite, nice, honest man. About ten years ago desire to see his own house has prevailed and he took his family to the place of his birth. He could just observe from distance a house of his birth, the place where his ancestors have built a farm with more than 100 hectares (about 250 acres) of land. "After all these years the house was the same, but ruined by the lack of maintenance, a terrible sight on once proud estate. All what my grandfathers built, they have ruined in just one generation.", he said. A sad story. He was visibly depressed with what he has seen.  Despite all odds, he left behind him two honest children, well situated. Those who took his house live in ruins. Easy come, easy go.


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#259 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:21 PM

And the problem is?

He was compensated by his government. Not enough money? More than 100 hectares means he was basically a one percenter. 

 

Well, I actually get it, my family had large farms too, they took them away, and gave a shitty German house as compensation.

And where the farms stood there are empty fields with absolutely nothing. 

I get it but still hate whining...

 



#260 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:25 PM

There was a program on UK TV not long back where the Children of  Polish Jews went back to Poland to visit where they were born. They were made very unwelcome in the villages they visited. They were subjected to outright hostility from the Poles  presently living in their old houses. It was clear they was no desire to tell them anything about  what happened to any 'missing' relatives they asked about. 

 

So they descended  with their 4K cameras, boom microphones and huge, bright vans on some simple folks demanding answers right then or else, and then complained loudly that they were hostile.
On rather because most documentaries are scripted, (you can't get acceptable video and sound quality without it) then recreated with actors or real people, it was a story written by some scriptwriter to prove a point.

 

But assuming that those people really killed their relatives, what did they expect, really?
They visited some shitty people, descendants of those murderers, living in their shitty environment, and complained they were treated like shit? 
This was stupid and boring.

 

They are ways to find the truth. There are local historians, archives, court archives with files of those sentenced shortly after the war for doing stupid things during WW2. But no, truth is unimportant, proving a point is.
I probably would find more info using just internet than those "documentarists" with their cameras.

 

The more interesting question is why those children, the rightful heirs of the owners, haven't recovered their houses, and sold them for profit. It's their money, and the people living there are to stfu, the government will compensate their losses - more or less.

 

They want vengeance? No problem. For a hate crime committed during the WW2 it is mandatory maximum penalty, with no parole.
It has been like that from 1944, to this day.


Edited by wm., 10 January 2017 - 05:57 PM.


#261 Tamino

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:13 PM

@wm.

 

You really don't have elementary sense of shame.

 

Yes, Poles have been granted the land, soil, dirt, name ti whatever you want. You can swallow it if you are hungry. But you have expulsed the elite who was capable handling that land, making it a Paradise on Earth. Now, you have destroyed everything, your economy is in disarray and Poles are looking for jobs elsewhere, you want Europe, predominantly Germany to recover your country and grant you substantial subventions. Where your begging business ends? When you are going to stop begging and accusing others that they've turned their backs on Poland. Please, be quiet, have some respect for victims of Polish wild chauvinistic expansionism and start working instead of whining. 


Edited by Tamino, 10 January 2017 - 06:14 PM.

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#262 OhneGewehr

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:02 PM

 "After all these years the house was the same, but ruined by the lack of maintenance, a terrible sight on once proud estate.

This is far more complicated.

Most of these houses didn't belong to those, who lived there. Why should they maintain them?

And then there was this sentiment that they live in a foreign country, only borrowed. Whereas the german refugees in the West knew, that they could stay and everything they achieve will belong to them.



#263 m kenny

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:07 PM

 

But assuming that those people really killed their relatives, what did they expect, really?
.

 

Interesting that you automatically assume that. One could be forgiven for thinking  that this was so common that you feel it pointless to deny it and instead try and defend it.


Edited by m kenny, 10 January 2017 - 07:08 PM.


#264 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:04 PM

I assumed that a bunch of smug Westerners with their shinny gear spooked some old folks, people thinking that court enforcement agents would arrive shortly, confiscate their homes, and kick them out onto the street. 

 

The other was just the most extreme case, so we don't waste time on some in-between scenarios. 

 



#265 Tamino

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:16 PM

@wm.

 

Jesus Christ. Have you drank too much vodka today? Sober up. 

 

Specialty-Polish-Vodka-460-x-344.jpg


Edited by Tamino, 10 January 2017 - 09:17 PM.

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#266 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:21 PM

 Now, you have destroyed everything, your economy is in disarray and Poles are looking for jobs elsewhere, you want Europe, predominantly Germany to recover your country and grant you substantial subventions. Where your begging business ends? When you are going to stop begging and accusing others that they've turned their backs on Poland. Please, be quiet, have some respect for victims of Polish wild chauvinistic expansionism and start working instead of whining. 

 

I would gladly agree with many of you statements, but you always have to say the other stupid nonsense.

Sorry for using a dirty word but you must a progressive, those people can't think logically, at all.

 

Today's Poland is 25% smaller than pre-war. This means the Allies stole from the Poles one fifth of their land.

So how come the people who lost so much territory can be called expansionists?

 

Please explain, you have a chance to prove you are not a progressive :)

 

 

And then:

- the Paradise was the most shitty part of Germany,

- the Polish economy is one of the most healthiest in Europe, although obviously not one of the richest,

- the Poles arriving over there want to replace their relatively good life with a much better life. It's not like they are dying in droves in Poland,

- the Germans will not survive without Poles and their neighbors, unless they want to live in a Muslim country. Poles become good Germans in one generation.


Edited by wm., 10 January 2017 - 09:25 PM.


#267 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:52 PM

This is far more complicated.

Most of these houses didn't belong to those, who lived there. Why should they maintain them?

And then there was this sentiment that they live in a foreign country, only borrowed. Whereas the german refugees in the West knew, that they could stay and everything they achieve will belong to them.

 

Not quite, Poland was the only country where the communists didn't dare touch private property. They confiscated anything larger than a farm, or mom and pop bossiness but generally left the people alone.

 

But 100+ hectares was too much, nobody would be given that. I think it's more likely the communists created a kolkhoz there, it eventually failed, and people looted everything they could.

 

Lots of things were destroyed like that, they gave some nice property to some bureaucratic state monstrosity, and with time nothing was left. Only in Lower Silesia over 800 German palaces was destroyed through lack of capital, neglect, theft. The real reason of course was the lack of a real owner. This is why the communists, socialists, and their modern incarnations are the scourge of the Earth. They ruin everything. 

 

But it is true that the people forced to live there didn't repair or even paint  their new homes for ever 20 years, at all. They thought it wasn't worth the bother, the Germans would return and kick them out. 


Edited by wm., 10 January 2017 - 11:52 PM.


#268 wm.

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:54 PM

Jesus Christ. Have you drank too much vodka today? Sober up. 

 

Don't drink shit which is not triple distilled.



#269 Tamino

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:41 PM

Ah, you drink imported Vodka - "Wodka Gorbatschow", made in Germany. In quality we trust.

 

Let me correct you: the German text on the label "Dreifach Kältgefiltert" means: filtrated three times in cold, not distilled three times. There is no need for "triple distillation" - "pure" ethanol produced by distillation may be obtained in a single step process; it is a mixture with a composition of ethanol 95% and water with 5%. With distillation you may not go further above that limit. It is complicated matter, but it is sufficient to state that that composition is named Azeotropic mixture.  If you want pure, absolute ethanol, one more separation step is required, so that the water content in rectified spirit is removed completely. But this is another story.

 

Just drink - alcohol will seemingly help you to cope with difficulties life, but ultimately will destroy your bile tract and brains. The later is already damaged anyways.

 

800px-Wodka_Gorbatschow_0%2C1l.jpg


Edited by Tamino, 11 January 2017 - 07:01 PM.

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#270 wm.

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:10 AM

I don't know. 
I thought filtration was used to remove things from liquids; dirt, fly droppings, or maybe bacterium. So the question is why are they doing it so many times. Their water seems to be shitty.

Distillation not only removes unwanted things like fly droppings, but unwanted liquids too. In this case less unwanted liquids means reduced hangover. 

But distillation is much more expensive than filtration. So maybe they filtrate three times through their boss' sock for example, and hope their clients confuse filtration with distillation.



#271 green slime

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:54 AM

I don't know. 
I thought filtration was used to remove things from liquids; dirt, fly droppings, or maybe bacterium. So the question is why are they doing it so many times. Their water seems to be shitty.

Distillation not only removes unwanted things like fly droppings, but unwanted liquids too. In this case less unwanted liquids means reduced hangover. 

But distillation is much more expensive than filtration. So maybe they filtrate three times through their boss' sock for example, and hope their clients confuse filtration with distillation.

 

TripleFilterTest.jpg

 

There are lots processes which use multiple stages of filtration.



#272 wm.

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:35 PM

Still I thought booze producers use clean as a whistle artesian water, not water from a nearest swamp - which would probably require multistage filtration. 


Edited by wm., 13 January 2017 - 08:44 PM.


#273 Tamino

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:32 PM

I have always thought that Poles are experts on booze. Wrong, judging from your amateurish knowledge - Poles are just rather enthusiastic consumers of everything that contains alcohol of any sort: methanol, propanol, butanol...

 

Didn't you know: never dilute any booze with ordinary tap water of any sort or quality. You may dilute booze only with demineralised water because minerals from ordinary water affect  the taste. Anyways, as a Pole you usually want to increase the content of alcohol, not to dilute it.

 

Now, in this particular case filtration, a special one, is required to eliminate the bad taste of raw vodka, to make it "smooth". There are different technologies but German Gorbatschow vodka is first chilled and then filtered in a series of mechanical filters to make it practically without any odor or bar taste. 


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#274 Sloniksp

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 07:24 AM

But Mongols never conquered Poland, although defeated her a few times.
What you mean is so called "feudal fragmentation", it happened all around Europe during the Middle Ages.
The defining characteristic of feudal fragmentation was an impotent and weak monarch, but countries still existed despite that.

The 1795 partition was declared null and void first by Russia, then by Germany (after some gentle prodding from the Allies).
Because of that the 1918 Poland was a direct continuation of the pre-1795 Poland.

It maybe a gap or not, depending on the definition used.


Wasn't so much the Mongols as it was the Teutonic Knights which troubled Poland. Marienburg was their capital after their defeat it became part of Poland.... Borders change all the time...
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

#275 lwd

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 03:12 PM

I don't know. 
I thought filtration was used to remove things from liquids; dirt, fly droppings, or maybe bacterium. So the question is why are they doing it so many times. Their water seems to be shitty.

Distillation not only removes unwanted things like fly droppings, but unwanted liquids too. In this case less unwanted liquids means reduced hangover. 

But distillation is much more expensive than filtration. So maybe they filtrate three times through their boss' sock for example, and hope their clients confuse filtration with distillation.

Distillation will remove pretty much anything solid at room temperature so most things that are easy to remove by filtration.  It does tend to concentrate, especially if temperatures aren't well controlled, some volatile liquids including alcohols other than ethanol.  Most hangovers are caused by dehydration though and since distillation is primarily aimed at removing water one could better state that it increases hangovers.  Removing other alcohols on the other hand will reduce some ill effects some of which may resemble hangovers.






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