Hello Everybody. A quick question. What if Hitler won the Battle Of Berlin? What did this change? Hitler knew he couldnt win the war. I know that Hitler didnt want to retreat from Berlin because he would look like a coward he sais. So what changed if Nazi Germany won The Battle Of Berlin? The allies would still win the war so what would change?
Capturing Berlin was inevitable. Had the Red Army somehow failed in this task on the first try, another attempt would soon follow, and another, and another after that one and so on until Berlin was taken. Overall absolutely nothing would change except the body count.
But wasnt there a change that the allies would help the sovjets in the second battle of berlin because they where pretty close.
Doubtful. No need. The Red Army was more than capable. The defenders had no chance. Besides no point in getting allied boys killed for a city that would be turned over to the Russians afterwards anyway...
I don't think Stalin would have asked for help and I'm not sure the western allies would have wanted to get into that blood bath. The risk of friendly fire casualties alone would have been huge. While the Red Army was pretty depleted their front lines were shortening considerably and the opposition had almost disappeared. If Berlin turned back one assault many of the remaining German forces would likely have used the extra time to head west to surrender to the western allies allowing the Soviets to concentrate even greater forces around Berlin. IMO to have a chance of successfully defending Berlin from the Red Army the Germans need to make some different choices no later than late summer of 41.
I know that Hitler couldnt win the war if the battle of berlin failed for the sovjets.... But my thing is: The allies where pretty close to Berlin and the sovjets where just defeated in that battle. The sovjets needed to rearm and rethink a new strategy for attacking berlin. That would take some time. The germans where depleted and used everything to defend their capital. So if this happened, would the allies try to take Berlin before the sovjets started a new attack?
Thats really an excellent idea Louis. Let me continue this for you. After the victory Hanna Reitsch lands her Focke-Wulf Fw 44 on Postdammer Platz and takes victorious Fuhrer to Berthesgarten. Few days later a special plane with Eisenhower on board lands in Munich to meet Hitler and Goring in Berthesgarten. Gobbels gives a press conference in London to present new alliance. Western allies agree to re-equip Waffen SS and to joint attack on Russia. This time Americans and Britons play the role of Rumanians and Hungarians. After the defeat of Russia, Moscow is erased to ground and turned into a gigantic water reservoir. Russian population had to retreat far beyond Urals and finally Hitler marries Eva, rises four blue-eyed kids and lives happy until the end of their days. An age of von Sckickelgruber dynasty begins. Sweet enough?
It took just eight days for the Soviets to go from their positions below the Seelöwe heights, to surrounding Berlin. It took just another 8 days to invest the city. There were over 1 million Soviet soldiers. There was sufficient Soviet supplies to keep going for considerably longer than 16 days. There was no "strategy" that needed rethinking. It was a foregone conclusion. And once surrounded, short of attacking the Soviet forces, there was nothing the Western Allies could do about it.
The Western Allies weren't all that close to Berlin either. If they had decided to try and beat the Soviets to Berlin they might actually have gotten there ahead of them but by the time of the battle they weren't getting there any time soon. The US forces for instance were committed to a large extent vs Southern Germany.
This theme belongs to the Cold War and that came later even though Churchill was planting seeds of that war much before. The reality of May 1945 is this:
I don't agree. It's still WWII as neither the Germans nor the Japanese have surrendered and it doesn't necessarily imply ill will between the Soviets and the Western Allies. Requires quite a bit more backstory to make it a reasonable what if though.
If one Russian offensive was stopped, before long there would be another. And another if necessary. Hitler's fantasy was that the depleted German armies he kept sending orders to would pull off something like Manstein's counterstroke in early 1943, destroying the Russian armies encircling Berlin. Of course they had nowhere near the combat power for that. Unless stopping the Russians also meant pushing them back (virtually impossible), the relentless bombardment of Berlin would continue. I've read that the weight of Russian shells and rockets fired into the city exceeded the tonnage of western Allied bombs - can anyone confirm or correct?
That's what Beevor claims in his "Downfall". However Beevor is a sound historical source or not, the 1st Byelorussian started a non-stop shelling on Hitlers' birthday until the end of hostilities with 41,600 artillery pieces. The results are shown below - Brandenburg gate, May 1945.
Ike decided and it was approved, there was no reason to waste American lives to take Berlin when the Soviets were willing to do so
