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The Bromberg and Danzig massacres in Poland


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#26 George Patton

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 07:44 PM

I don't see what's wrong with using him as a source?

 

Using Irving as a source on something like the Luftwaffe: Valid.

Using Irving as a source on something like Nazi war crimes: Invalid.


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Best Regards,
Alan


#27 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 07:46 PM

Repeating a statement does nothing to increase it's validity.  I think you will find by the way if you look at the historical record that many of the Ashkenazi Jews for instance do have Semitic ancestors.  Now I'm not claiming all Jews are Semitic but that doesn't mean that your statement is all that accurate either.  Indeed the term has been used in a number of different ways some definitions would support your opinion and some wouldn't which renders your blanket statement counter factual as it stands.

How do you know that they have Semitic ancestry.They originated from the khazar kingdom which is where modern day Caucasus.So how are they Semitic.Benjamin Freedman was a ex Zionist Jew who says that they are not Semitic.
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#28 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 07:48 PM

Using Irving as a source on something like the Luftwaffe: Valid.
Using Irving as a source on something like Nazi war crimes: Invalid.

Why is it?Irving has the most documentation.He has admitted that the Germans committed war crimes and others he's says they didn't because of lack of evidence
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#29 George Patton

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 07:55 PM

Irving has the most documentation.

 

Define "most documentation". Compared to whom? Compared to what? Consisting of what? I too have large amounts of "documentation". My bathroom, for example, has a large collection of documentation.

 

He has admitted that the Germans committed war crimes and others he's says they didn't because of lack of evidence

 

There is nothing more to be said. Carry on...

 

PS Everyone: I was just PM'ed Mr. Irving's email. It is "Focalp@aol.com". If you'd google this, you'd discover that it is 6+ years old and was leaked in 2009 -- doubtful indeed that he still has it.


Best Regards,
Alan


#30 KJ Jr

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:00 PM

Well unless you can disprove him because no historian has been able to disprove him.I don't see what's wrong with using him as a source?So he's a revisionist?He has won awards for how historically accurate he is.If you can disprove him you will get 5,000 British Pounds because he said that if anyone can disprove him he would do this.

It's clear you have followed him blindly. He is a known Holocaust denier. He has been debunked by countless historians (Chris Browning, Richard Evans, Gitta Sereny) to name a few. His credibility within the realm of the Holocaust and genocide during the Second World War is a joke.

Go back to the drawing board if you want to spread your revisionist history. Actually delve into your beloved "historians" and their professional history and challengers. Go do your homework. It seems to me that you are following the footsteps of many others who need the past to be wrong so you can give yourself a feeling of academic self worth.

Edited by KJ Jr, 14 June 2016 - 08:02 PM.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein
 

 

#31 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:00 PM

Define "most documentation". Compared to whom? Compared to what? Consisting of what? I too have large amounts of "documentation". My bathroom, for example, has a large collection of documentation.
 

 
There is nothing more to be said. Carry on...
 
PS Everyone: I was just PM'ed Mr. Irving's email. It is "Focalp@aol.com". If you'd google this, you'd discover that it is 6+ years old and was leaked in 2009 -- doubtful indeed that he still has it.

If you have documentation that he is wrong then send it into him and get your 5,000 pound reward.
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#32 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:01 PM

It's clear you have followed him blindly. He is a known Holocaust denier. He has been debunked by countless historians (Chris Browning, Richard Evans, Gitta Sereny) to name a few. His credibility within the realm of the Holocaust and genocide during the Second World War is a joke.
Go back to the drawing board if you want to spread your revisionist history. Actually delve into your beloved "historians" and their profrssional history and challengers. Go do your homework.

Link me to the source that disproves him please

Edited by Gen.Clint, 14 June 2016 - 08:01 PM.

The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#33 KJ Jr

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:04 PM

Link me to the source that disproves him please


Google his trial for a start.

Edited by KJ Jr, 14 June 2016 - 08:05 PM.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein
 

 

#34 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:04 PM

Define "most documentation". Compared to whom? Compared to what? Consisting of what? I too have large amounts of "documentation". My bathroom, for example, has a large collection of documentation.
 

 
There is nothing more to be said. Carry on...
 
PS Everyone: I was just PM'ed Mr. Irving's email. It is "Focalp@aol.com". If you'd google this, you'd discover that it is 6+ years old and was leaked in 2009 -- doubtful indeed that he still has it.

He sent me one of his books for free and I have talked to him on many occasions
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#35 KJ Jr

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:05 PM

He sent me one of his books for free and I have talked to him on many occasions


LOL. Alright...my sides hurt.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein
 

 

#36 George Patton

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:06 PM

If you have documentation that he is wrong then send it into him and get your 5,000 pound reward.

 

Sorry, 5000 pounds does nothing for me. I make enough as is and couldn't be bothered to spend any time at all in return for such a small amount.

 

He sent me one of his books for free and I have talked to him on many occasions

 

Good!


Edited by George Patton, 14 June 2016 - 08:06 PM.

Best Regards,
Alan


#37 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:07 PM

Google his trial for a start.

Are you referring to the Debra L trial?
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#38 KJ Jr

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:07 PM

Are you referring to the Debra L trial?


Read.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein
 

 

#39 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:08 PM

LOL. Alright...my sides hurt.

Whats so funny man?I do have a book from him it's called Churchills War.He sent me it through the mail

Edited by Gen.Clint, 14 June 2016 - 08:08 PM.

The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#40 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:09 PM

Read.

what do you mean read?
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#41 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:11 PM

Sorry, 5000 pounds does nothing for me. I make enough as is and couldn't be bothered to spend any time at all in return for such a small amount.
 

 
Good!

Lol.That figures
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#42 George Patton

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:13 PM

Lol.That figures

 

I will take "that figures" as a compliment. Thanks friend!


Best Regards,
Alan


#43 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:17 PM

He's a busy guy but he does answer everyone that emails him.
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#44 KJ Jr

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:18 PM

what do you mean read?


Read the trial, read the transcripts. Read something other than revisionist, neo Nazi garbage. It's clear that you will not move from your stance or refuse to disbelieve the denier nonsense that you have been subjected to.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein
 

 

#45 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:21 PM

I'm not in this to offend anyone and I truly do apologize if I did.Im in this for the truth nothing else nothing more.Hopefully you guys can respect that.
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#46 KJ Jr

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:22 PM

There are plenty of historical works and primary documents, millions, that will tell you the truth.

Revisionist history with Holocaust denial is not one of them.

Edited by KJ Jr, 14 June 2016 - 08:23 PM.

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#47 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:31 PM

There are plenty of historical works and primary documents, millions, that will tell you the truth.
Revisionist history with Holocaust denial is not one of them.

send me a link please
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#48 Gen.Clint

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 08:44 PM

Read the trial, read the transcripts. Read something other than revisionist, neo Nazi garbage. It's clear that you will not move from your stance or refuse to disbelieve the denier nonsense that you have been subjected to.

Again link me to this trial.How is David Irving a neo-Nazi?He does have black people on his team.Neo-Nazis conform to what they are told is Hitlers ideas.When David Irving talks he never sounds like a neo Nazi or preaches neo Nazi ideas.

Edited by Gen.Clint, 14 June 2016 - 08:50 PM.

The victor will never be asked if he told the truth-Adolf Hitler.We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian-Adolf Hitler

#49 green slime

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 10:58 PM

 David Irving is never going to be an acceptable source.

1) The "original source" for the 58,000 figure you quote is from a Nazi news report, purportedly written in 1940, which itself makes lots of blatantly false and incorrect statements, short on details, long on unverifiable fantasy. Considering the known, devious false flag operation carried out by Nazi Germany immediately prior to, and during the opening stages of the war against Poland, these numbers are not credible in the least. Furthermore, the dates are, as far as I have seen, are all post 1st September 1939...
2) The document I linked to above is remarkably written in English, and not German. The document above attempts to appear as of the time period, yet is obviously not. Nearly all the images are copies of images with English captions. It is at best an English language facsimile of some aggregated Nazi propaganda.  Little to no verifiable evidence is given.
3) The so-called compiler "Hans Schadewaldt" would have been 17 in 1940, and is not credited with this work on the German wiki page detailing his life.No English article exists. But perhaps it was another Hans.... In which case he has left no other traces of himself.
4) The editor, is called "Bob Carruthers", and appears to have a penchant for producing books on Tigers. Or it could be another "Bob".
5) It is quite remarkable that the English language "document" claims that the various reports are based on court documents, yet this region of Poland has few surviving official documents from the period prior to 1945, given the enormous destruction rendered on city centres as the Red Army fought the fascists, and the document itself contains no (zip, zero, zilch, nada) images of Polish language documents (which, had the atrocities been committed in Poland, prior to the war, was what you would expect to find).

So, not surprisingly, what we find the authors /compilers / editors (whoever they may really be) mean when they reference to "documents", are actually Nazi-era attempts to justify their invasion after the fact, using the few post-war incidents they managed to find to incite in a very clumsy fashion. 5,437 murders are not verified in the "document".

Still not finding any evidence for large-scale pre-war atrocities committed by Poles against minority Germans, on the scale of 58,000 dead, as claimed by OP.

I'll repost the translated "news" report, because it's easy to miss in all the rest of the utter garbage


Dead and Missing

More than 58,000 were lost by the German minority in Poland during the days of their liberation from the Polish yoke, as far as can be ascertained at present. The Polish nation must for all time be held responsible for this appalling massacre consequent upon that Polish reign of terror. Up to November 17, 1939, the closing day for the documentary evidence contained in the first edition of this book, 5,437 murders, committed by members of the Polish armed forces and by Polish civilians on men, women and children of the German minority had already been irrefutably proved. It was quite apparent even then that the actual number of murders far exceeded this figure, and by February 1, 1940, the total number of identified bodies of the German minority had increased to 12,857. Official investigations carried out since the outbreak of the German-Polish war have shown that to these 12,857 killed there must be added more than 45,000 missing, all of whom must be accounted dead since no trace of them can be found. Thus the victims belonging to the German minority in Poland already now total over 58,000. Even this appalling figure by no means covers the sum total of the losses sustained by the German minority. There can be no doubt at all that investigations which are still being conducted will disclose many more thousand dead and wounded. The following description of the Polish atrocities which is not only confined to murders and mutilations but includes other deeds of violence such as maltreatment,rape, robbery and arson applies to only a small section of the terrible events for which irrefutable and official evidence is here established.


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#50 Otto

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 10:59 PM

This thread started with the Danzig massacre, moved to racial discussion, and now we are knee deep with David Irving.

Garbage thread is closed. 


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