M-10 Wildcat?

I was just thinking after seeing a training film on youtube for M10 tankers. The symbol shows a wildcat crushing tank in it's teeth.

How is it that it was named wolverine instead of M10 wildcat? These guys were out of camp Hood. Did the British give the name wolverine to the m10s? The m-18 seemed to have kept the cat part about it's name as the hellcat. What do you think?

 

To the best of my knowledge no one knows where the nickname wolverine comes from. The US, British, and Canadians have all disavowed starting it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AM10_tank_destroyer#History_of_name

 

It was invented by modelers and gamers in the 1970s. There is zero evidence that either the British or Americans ever used wolverine for the M10. It was M10 or M10 17-pounder.

 

I think the British dubbed it the Wolverine.

 

What do you think about my conspiracy of it being originally named M10 Wildcat? Do you think someone confused the name wolverine with wildcat? Seek, Strike, Destroy a catlike strategy.

 

Maybe that's why they used the wildcat as a symbol, but there were a few different Tank Destroyers developed and used during WW2. The half-track M3 and M6 that weren't very good, and the M10, M18, and M36 tank-like GMC's. I believe the Tank Destroyer units in general all used that logo.

 

Yes, I read it was the TDs Motto and symbol.

 

I think you confused a wolverine/wildcat with a Black Panther...

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/gabel2.pdf
https://books.google.com/books?id=yy8VDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=tank+destroyer,+%22black+panther%22&source=bl&ots=KBs0jHrofU&sig=PFFVySeRTrWFwM0jkM_yPoX2xCM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnsMyAhP7NAhXDqh4KHUy1AiAQ6AEIUjAM#v=onepage&q=tank%20destroyer%2C%20%22black%20panther%22&f=false

 

They did not use a "wildcat" as a symbol. The distinctive shoulder patch for the Tank Destroyers was designed by Colonel (alter Major General) Andrew D. Bruce and was first presented on 18 September 1942 when Camp Hood was officially opened. The description is of a "black cougar on a disc of golden orange, crunching a tank between his jaws". (Lt. Col. Emory A. Dunham, The Tank Destroyer History, Army Ground Forces Study No. 29, (Washington, D.C.: Historical Section, Army Ground Forces, 1946), p. 34)

The first "name" proposals from the War Department Office of the Chief of Ordnance on 2 May 1944 suggested "Black Jack" for the 90mm Gun Motor Carriage T71 (later standardized as M36). In November 1944, the General Jackson name was suggested for the M36 and the Hellcat name for the M18. Significantly, it was noted that Hellcat was already in current use in the field, but Jackson was not. In the field, most references I have heard to the M36 were as the Slugger.

There is zero evidence that Wolverine was ever used as a name for the M10. All documents and all TD men referred to it as a "TD", a "3" Gun Motor Carriage M10", or as an "M10". Neither did the 37mm GMC M6 or the 75mm GMC T12/M3 ever receive a name. By the time names were being thought of, the M6, T12/M3, and M10 were all considered obsolete or obsolescent; it was expected the M18, M36, and the 3" Gun M5 would all replace the M10.

 

Whatever that logo he included on this I referred to as logo

 

Was the M5 3" gun towed?

 

You seem to have missed the point. The beast on the "logo", AKA the unit distinctive patch, was never referred to as a "wildcat". It was a "black cougar".

 

Yes.

 

Ok, my mistake.

 

I said Wildcat because that's what the poster said and was going along with his theme, but I didn't differentiate between wildcat and black cougar.

 

Just as an aside from someone who doesn't specialise in Tanks...I play "World of Tanks" (awesome game)...and tech line has the Wildcat and the Wolverine, but on separate evolution lines...

 

There. Was. No. Such. Thing. It. Is. A. Invention. By. Wargamers.

Literally. David Fletcher was never able to find evidence in the British Tank Museum that any British unit used "Wolverine" for an M10. I have found no evidence in the American records that any American ever used "Wolverine" for an M10.

But because a wargaming site uses it then it must have been so seems to be the thinking going on?

 

Just saying man...im no expert.

 

I'll second that. I have the war diaries of the RA units which used the M10 in Normandy and a lot of the planning documents, orders and reports concerning their use, copies of the medal citations for the officers and soldiers from SP Anti tank units and the classified history written immediately post war.

As far as the British are concerned, the equipment is an M10 Self propelled Anti tank gun. There isn't much distinction in the 1944 documents between the 3" and 17 Pdr armed M10s, so Achillies may even be a later attribution for the 17 pdr armed M10.

Wolverine would have been a damned stupid name for the British to introduce as wild animals were typically used for the names of German AFVs, and likely to confuse.

 

The real name. Gun Motor Carriage M10. Troops in the field may have nicknamed the tanks, that faded through history.