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Anti-Soviet myths

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Gerda, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    People love to talk about the Soviet propaganda. And I want to talk about the anti-Soviet propaganda. Contrary to the opinion of many, it was very common in the West during the Cold War, also Goebbels's propaganda, and now, too, have (the demonization of Soviet Union is continued ). First and foremost, a huge falsification exposed the Great Patriotic War. In this topic, I suggest to disassemble the anti-Soviet and anti-Russian myths and simply false claims of Western and some Russian historians. For example, a famous liar, Robert Conquest. In his book, The Great Terror: Stalin's Purge of the Thirties, where the numbers of the repressed is 5 times higher than documentary evidence. Historian Glover Furr: "... As a graduate student, I was in 1965 - 1969 he took part in protests against the US war in Vietnam. Then one day someone said to me: the Vietnamese Communists can not simply be "good guys", they are all "Stalinists" and "Stalin killed millions of innocent people." Note remember. Perhaps that is why in the early 1970s, I jumped at the first edition of the "Great Terror" R.Konkvesta. And he was shocked to read! It must be said that in those days I read in Russian, because this language began to study at school. And carefully worked konkvestovskoe essay. Until now, no one, probably not the book went through the venerable Sovietologist anything like it. And then it became clear that the historical evidence in the "Great Terror" used by the author was a fraudulent manner. His findings simply do not match what Conquest cites as evidence in his book references. Well, and in general all his sources were selected according to their degree of hostility to Stalin, regardless of the reliability of each. In general, in the end, the idea of ​​his own research on the so-called "terror" ... "
     
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  2. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    Another famous liar, Anthony Beevor. It also allows falsification during working with sources. Doctor of Historical Sciences, Leading Researcher, Institute of Russian History ES Senyavskaya writes: "About "scientific integrity" English author can be judged by concrete examples. By placing the line in his work, which caused the greatest stir in the Western media as a source of the information received, he referred to my book "The Psychology of the war in the twentieth century. The historical experience of Russia" [7]. This link has been placed in the following context: "The most shocking, from the Russian point of view, look the facts of violence of Soviet soldiers and officers committed against the Ukrainian, Russian and Belarusian women and girls liberated from German labor camps <Senyavskaya. - 2000. - S. 184. - # 27.>. Many girls were only sixteen, and even at the age of fourteen, when they were driven to forced labor in Germany. Such cases do completely untenable any attempt to justify the behavior of the Soviet soldiers with words that they supposedly took revenge for Nazi crimes in the Soviet Union ". Open the page 184 of my monograph ( "# 27" - this is my footnote to the book: Semiryaga MI As we drove Germany Politics and Life, Moscow, 1995, pp 314-315...). We read that indirectly can be attributed to the issue raised by Mr Beevor (so as not to break the context of quoting the entire paragraph, the beginning of which is placed on the previous page 183): "worldviews and derives from them the moral and socio-psychological qualities were manifested in against the enemy. in the spring of 1942, one of the divisional newspaper Karelian front Red Army found an essay under the eloquent title "We have learned to hate." And this hatred was just one of the dominant feelings in the actions of the Soviet Army throughout the war. However, depending on particular its stage and related conditions, attitude toward the enemy took on different shades. So, a new, more complex range of feelings become manifest in Soviet soldiers and officers in connection with the transfer of the fighting outside of our country, to someone else, including the enemy, territory. Many soldiers believed that as the winners they can afford everything, including the arbitrariness against the civilian population. Negative phenomena in the Army-liberator cause appreciable damage to the prestige of the Soviet Union and its armed forces, could adversely affect future relations with the countries through which our troops. Soviet commanders had again and again to pay attention to the state of discipline in the armed forces, to conduct a personnel explanatory conversations, take special directives and issue severe orders. The Soviet Union had to show the people of Europe that their land is not entered "Asian hordes", and the army of a civilized state. Therefore, a purely criminal offenses in the eyes of the Soviet leadership acquired political overtones. In this regard, on Stalin's personal order several show trials to the imposition of the death penalty has been arranged guilty, and the NKVD regularly inform the military command of his action against the facts of robbery against the civilian population [27] "[9]. Well, where is "acts of violence of Soviet soldiers and officers committed against the Ukrainian, Russian and Belarusian women and girls liberated from German labor camps"? Maybe Mr. Beevor meant that stated in the M.I.Semiryagi on I refer, but there is nothing like that?! no pages 314-315, on any other in the West, however, the application of Mr. Beevor considered as absolutely reliable So, Konstantin Eggert in "Memory and truth", written in. 2005 for the project bi-bi-si the 60th anniversary of the end of world war II, wrote: "When in 2002 in London for the first time published a book by Anthony Beevor" The Fall of Berlin "(now it is translated into Russian publisher AST), Russia's ambassador to the UK Grigory Karasin, wrote an angry letter to the newspaper "Daily telegraph". The diplomat accused the famous military historian of slandering the glorious feat of the Soviet soldiers. Cause? Beevor, based on documents from the main military archives in Podolsk, said, among other things, of the atrocities that have worked in the Soviet troops liberated Poland, East Prussia and Berlin itself. Historians of the Russian Academy of Sciences of the book "The Fall of Berlin" condemned almost before the ambassador. Meanwhile, reference books Beevor machine in perfect order: the incoming and outgoing numbers of reports, folder, shelf and so on. That is a lie of the writer does not condemn [emphasis mine -. ES] "[10] But if such an obvious manipulation allowed in this particular example, what is the guarantee that the other given in the book of Mr. Beevor so-called." Facts "not fabricated by the same" method "this uncomplicated calculation built many falsifications: info system looks solid and convincing, especially for the inexperienced reader, and checked into the archive and library of each of the 1007 copyright footnotes hardly anyone would.

    Administrator edit:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paragraph
     
  3. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    German historian Jochen Hellbeck, for example, notes that Beevor in his book "Stalingrad", trying to imagine the battle of Stalingrad as a war of the Soviet authorities against their own people, without checking duplicates rumors that contradict historical documents. In general, the "Stalingrad", according Hellbeka, written by openly pro-German position and with "saturated with propaganda stereotypes formed during the time of the Third Reich." "As for the Battle of Stalingrad, I would like to give an example of the documents: Beevor, speaking of the Red Army as a repressive institution, says that in 13.5 thousand Soviet soldiers were shot by the defense of Stalingrad only in the 62nd Army (and. he does it three times). Based on data from various sources declassified, I believe that these numbers are exaggerated. " According to archive data Shot was about 200 people. Rather than 13.5 thousand. As a lie Beevor. Also, Anthony Beevor, so admired truthfulness of the novel "Life and Fate" and is published in English and German frontline diaries of Vasily Grossman, simply removed from them the places in which the then correspondent positively on commissars and political instructors or chat with them! Beevor does not even hide their manipulations, explaining it by the fact that the seized parts of the diaries are filled accepted in those years, numerous ideological clichés in describing the role of the party and its political workers, and therefore not of interest to readers.
     
  4. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    Another well-known lie. He writes that the evaluation Zander and Yor, on which he refers when assessing the number of raped, based on , "the two main hospitals in Berlin." Children's Clinic "Empress Auguste Victoria" and the Charite hospital were not "General Hospital." And the estimate is based only on the data of first hospital, the data of second used to support the computing.For more information on the assessment of the raped: http://labas.livejournal.com/771672.html
    the issue of "two million"
    The first preliminary remark. This text is dedicated to the discussion of the methodology known statistical evaluation. On the basis of it should not be solved understated estimate or is overstated, or what it should actually be. The only thing in question in the text: the accuracy of the estimate itself.

    The second preliminary remark. Book HELCOM Sander and Barbara Yor "liberators and liberated» ( «BeFreier und Befreite») - an important and underrated historical work. Despite the mistakes (false "quotes" Ehrenburg's , Nemmersdorfs of Goebbels' Vohenshau "), wandering from one article to another German, the book is a sincere attempt to consider the events of April and June 1945 in Berlin (including the facts of looting and rape) in the context of the war, and not independently of it, as is often done. The main drawback, in my opinion, is a stubborn desire of authors to answer the question "how many?". Already in the preface Zander writes: "I wanted to know, which means" a lot "when they talk about that in the battle for Berlin in April-May 1945, there were many rapes. I wanted to know what it means "a lot" for the city, which then lived 1.4 million women and what it means "a lot" for refugees from former German states in the east "(p.11) And then again." Regardless of that every single case of rape is horrible in itself, it makes the total number of historically important event that influenced the whole society. This number, however, is unknown. The intention is to establish the number of the most met strong opposition. Without the numbers, however, a causal relationship is not clear many events. "(P.14) As a result of this desire to play a bad joke with authors, driving them into the abyss of dubious extrapolations, which we'll talk below.

    A source. E. Beevor in his book "The Fall of Berlin" writes: "Berliners remember the screams at night, handed out in the homes with broken windows. According to estimates of the two main Berlin hospitals, the number of victims raped by Soviet soldiers range from ninety-five to one hundred and thirty thousand people. One doctor concluded that only in Berlin were raped about one hundred thousand women. Moreover, about ten thousand of them died primarily as a result of suicide. The number of deaths across East Germany, apparently, is much greater if we take into account the million four hundred thousand raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. It seems that of all was raped two million German women, many of them (if not most) have suffered this humiliation several times {936} ".
    Footnote for number 936 specifies "Op. by: Sander and Johr. - P. 54, 59 '
    After the publication of the book above Beevor estimates of the number of raped it has been widely disseminated by the press. Let us look at the basis of which they are made.

    Rank first in Berlin. In the book "liberators and liberated" statistical surveys devoted a special article by Barbara Yor "Events at a Glance" (pp. 46-73). Estimating the number of women raped in Berlin based on data from a single hospital - Children's Clinic "Empress Augusta Victoria" (Table 1).






















    As the table shows, the fathers of 12 (or 13) of the 237 surveyed inthe hospital born in 1945, and 20 (or 21), born in 1946, children wereRussian. On the basis of another hospital data Charite (Table 2)
     
  5. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    B.Yor postulates that when rape was advancing pregnancy in 20% of cases (118 of 514). The following is a calculation of the following:
    1. Official statistics provide Berlin for the period from September 1945 to August 1946 23124 newborns. According to the clinic "Empress Augusta Victoria" fathers 1 2 5% of newborns were Russian. 5% of the 23124 of 1156.
    2. 90% of women become pregnant after the rape had an abortion: means pregnant in 1156 * 10 = 11560 women.
    3. After the rape of pregnant women 20%, then raped bylo11560 * 5 = 57800 women.
    4. At the time, lived in Berlin 600,000 women of childbearing age from 18 to 45 years. 57800/600000 = 9.5% of them were raped.
    5. In addition to the Berlin resident women aged 14 to 18 years and women older than 45 years in the amount of 800 thousand. If we assume that in this group, 9.5% had been raped, it gives even the victims of 73300 (36650 at 4.75%)
    6. Thus, it was raped by 94,450 to 131,100, on average, more than 110,000 of the 1.4 million girls and women in Berlin, between the spring and autumn of 1945.

    critical acclaim.
    I. The calculation is based on data of one and only one hospital. It must be noted that the basis of the final result in tens of thousands of victims are literally isolated cases. How unstable calculation can be seen in a simple example. Add to "officially" born in 1945 "Russian children" has nine counts of "contentious cases". Then "Russian children" would be 22 out of 237 (9%), and the total number of victims on the basis of the calculation similar to the above, will increase from 110 to 198 thousand.

    II. Table. 1 column "father: Russian" and "father: Russian / rape" divorced. Nevertheless B.Yor in their calculations using the sum of the two columns (particularly revealing here in 1946: 16 in the first column, and 4 in the second). Eligibility is the summation
    debatable 3. According to the letter of hospital records "Russian children" born as a result of rape, it was only 9 of 804 (1.1%). If we take as a basis the number, the number of casualties will be reduced from 110 to 24 thousand.
    If we summarize without looking back, as it does B.Yor, then applying the same data in Table 1 to the Allies, you can just as easily blame the Americans, the British and French in the rape only in 1945 in Berlin, about 50 thousand women (5 + 1 1 + 2 + 4 + 2.2 to give 567%, more in analogy with the above calculation).

    III The assumption that 90% of women become pregnant after the rape had an abortion, is not supported by any arguments except for eyewitness accounts of mass abortion. Why mass is considered to be equal to 90%, the author does not explain. Meanwhile Table. 2 that 40 women have made in the Charité hospital abortion of 118, ie, not 90% and 34%. Changing into account only this factor, we get 110 thousand instead of 16 thousand victims.

    IV There is no doubt that rape peak in Berlin came in the April-May 1945 One would have expected peak fertility "Russian children" in the January-February 1946, however in the clinic "Empress Augusta Victoria" in 1945, was born more the percentage of "Russian children" than in 1946. How did "Russian children" were born in September and October? If, for example, the children of refugees, they have no relation to the Berlin statistics.
    No less strange that in claim 1 B.Yor calculation takes into account children born before August 1946, and Table 1 gives the data for the entire 1946

    V logic of mathematical actions undertaken in claim 5 calculation (known as the "Russian soldiers raped every German women of all the ages of 8 to 80"), in my opinion, is beyond good and evil, and certainly beyond unbiased statistical research.

    From the foregoing, it is clear that use payment Barbara Yor as a reliable statistical evaluation is not too appropriate. This kind of "arithmetic" creates unlimited scope for manipulation. Changing rather arbitrarily chosen ratios, can be varied by the final "victims" in the range from a few thousand to a few hundred thousands. Such numerical balancing act in no way emphasizes the "historic importance" of the problem, but rather the contrary provokes mocking condescending attitude towards it.
     
  6. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion the Cold War picked up right where the Nazis left off, we took over the "Crusade" against Communism in terms of propaganda, espionage, covertness, subversion, etc. People don't like to be pragmatic or admit the obvious. We were staunch Communist haters. The only difference between us and the Nazis in terms of Communism is we wouldn't immediately execute the Political officers and communists as a plan of action.
     
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  7. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Let's be serious, the executive summary of this is the Americans were the good guys living in maybe imperfect but still democracy, the Soviets were the bad guys who murdered both their own and not-their-own people in great numbers.
    As illustration, disregarding the Katyń massacre which at 22,000 victims was small stuff, during the Polish Operation of the NKVD the Soviets murdered at least 110,000 Poles (according to Soviets archives), deported about (most likely more) a half a million to Siberia and Kazakhstan, 35,000 were executed during the NKVD prisoner massacres at the beginning of the German invasion.

    How fun it was in the USSR we can learn from Victor Herman, an American auto worker, who had the misfortune to end up in Soviet hands in 1938 - in this case an NKVD torturer called Bielov:

    Each night Belov would punch Victor Herman's back three times on his right side, and then again on the left. He would pause, pacing himself by stopping to drink a beer or whisky, before starting up again with steady deliberation. Shortly after midnight, Belov would begin and he would continue until dawn. On the first night Victor Herman managed. stay on his feet, but on the second night he fell, and every night thereafter. On the eleventh night, Belov pressed his fingertips across the length of Victor's back, in a macabre impersonation of a medical doctor asking his victim where it hurt. Victor remained silent, but when he flinched, Belov sensed he had found his mark. After the fifteenth night, Victor began bleeding from his penis, his rectum, his nose and his eyes. He was returned to his cell each morning at dawn. Eventually the cell 'elder' pleaded with him to talk - 'Save your life, American' - but Victor Herman stubbornly refused to confess to a crime he had not committed.
    On the fifty-third night of his torture, he was told he would be released if he only signed a list of names. When Victor again refused, he was taken to a basement cell and beaten by a gang of men with clubs. The next morning he was coughing up clots of blood, and the following night he was beaten again and told he was going to be killed. Losing consciousness, Victor was woken by the sensation and smell of his leg being burned to bring him back round. On the fifty-fifth night, believing that he was about to die and knowing that he might never get the chance again, Victor Herman spat in Below's face. He woke up in the prison hospital.

    Lying beside him in the hospital ward was a prisoner named Romanoff, who had also emigrated from Detroit to work in the Soviet Ford factory. Romanoff was in a terrible state but seemed oddly cheerful; he said he would soon be released and then find a way to return home to Detroit. When Victor asked how this was possible, Romanoff told him that he had signed a confession denouncing McCarthy, an engineer at the auto factory, as an American spy. The following night, Romanoff died in the hospital of internal injuries. At this point, convinced that he too would be beaten to death, Victor Herman signed the confession placed before him. He was immediately returned to his crowded holding cell, where he recognised another American from the auto factory, a man named Janssen, lying prostrate on the concrete floor with blood bubbling from his mouth. A few hours later Janssen's body was removed from the cell.
    from: The Forsaken by Tim Tzouliadis
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Why talk of Soviet propaganda? It was the communistic revolution that was feared. That was why Hitler was funded and what was feared later on.

    If the USSR had Comintern it´s main goal was to achieve a world wide revolution- quite clearly said what they were after.
     
  9. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    And how about Japanese in the American concentration camps? And the Soviet prisoners of war killed by Poles after the Soviet-Polish war of 1919-1920? War which Poland began , but not Russia! Nobody speaks about it! How about Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the war in Vietnam which victims about 4-5 million people? Iraq? Million people! Korea! After World War II was ended USA untied the greatest number of wars and killed hundreds of thousands of people worldwide! You consider they have to it the right because they are good guys? And millions killed by them are bad guys? Also, a racial segredation in the "democratic" USA was cancelled only in 1964!!!!!


    Yes Russia officially admitted the fact that for Katyn, the Soviet Union bears responsibility, but there is opinion that documents which were transferred to Poles - a forgery!
    As you can see, I do not think that only in the West there is a propaganda, in Russia it is too, we took
    on responsibility for what we didn't made
     
  10. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    Well now we know who is guilty of everything! However, the Soviet Union forgot the idea about world revolution even before Lenin's death. There is also other opinion in this respect, the historian Emanuel Sarkisyanz:
    "— Owing to what motives the political elite of England pursued policy of support of Nazism?
    — They had an interest in preserving of class nature of the English society, but, mainly, in preserving of the empire, the empire was founded on racial ideology. The racial ideology already was under the threat proceeding from the doctrine of Gandhi and Lenin's appeal to the people of the East. In Hitler's racism British saw a counterbalance of inevitable emancipation of natives. This factor played much more important role, than fear of communists in England as it is considered to be. Especially as communists in England were rather small and harmless."
     
  11. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    By the way, the book Emanuel Sarkisyanz "hitler's english inspirers" was not published neither in England, nor in Germany.
    Yes, in the Soviet Union there were many awful things, but also many good things. No one speak about the positive moments . Historian Grover Furr: "The Soviet Union one existence posed a threat, but not in that global sense, as if it tried to seize power over the world. The Soviet Union never wanted to conquer the whole world. It is the USA wanted to seize power over the world. The Soviet Union never did it. He always took a defensive position. But the western capitalist countries were afraid. Therefore they provided all these social privileges to the people.

    Few years ago we with my old school friend went for mountain walk in New Hampshire. There is a remarkable way on mountain top with small huts near a track, all this was constructed in 1930 by the Body of Grazhansky Protection (Civilian Conservation Corps), by means of this organization the government created jobs for the unemployed. There were vacancies for workers, writers, musicians. The idea was that the government has to provide jobs if you cannot find work in the private sector. It occurred because there was the Soviet Union because there was a world communistic movement therefore they had to make so. So, we climbed this route with my friend with whom I am familiar since 4 years. It from Canada so it has all these social guarantees.

    I told: "You know who can be thanked for all this that we see on the way?"

    - President Roosevelt.

    - Well, and except the president Roosevelt? – I asked. It is possible to tell thanks to Stalin! Because if there was no Soviet Union, then Roosevelt would not make it................................................................................................Support of the large capital was one of factors of receipt of Roosevelt to the power in 1932. For example, the billionaire Cyrus Eaton told: "We are in the middle of a depression, and this person will save capitalism for us". Thus, we obtained our social guarantees, also, as they were received by Canadians, Europeans and Australians. They received them because capitalists were afraid. It was made to bribe working class................................................................. I think, we are waited by very difficult period from which, eventually, something will turn out the best. Here what I mean, saying that the Russian revolution and, the Soviet Union, in some sense, defined character of world history of 20th century."
    Social justice, falling of colonial empires, cancellation of ethnic discrimination, victory over Nazis - the world to much is obliged to the Soviet Union. After the revolution and change of a political system - there are always repressions. There was revolution in England - there were repressions in England, there was revolution in France - there were repressions in France, revolutions without repressions do not happen. Another thing is that the victims of repressions not millions as often talking, and about 700 thousand were the victims.
     
  12. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Political Parties in the Reichstag ( in following order )

    Nov.
    1932
    Mar.
    1933
    Communist Party (KPD)

    100
    81
    Social Democratic Party (SDP)

    121
    120
    Catholic Centre Party (BVP)

    90
    93
    Nationalist Party (DNVP)

    52
    52
    Nazi Party (NSDAP)

    196
    288

    Other Parties

    35
    23

    Quite alot of "socialists" in Nazi Germany. Even with violence Hitler could not force them to join NSDAP. KPD and SDP are together "almost" as many as NSDAP alone. I believe as one of the myths that Stalin could not look at Germany as a possible communistic country with Hitler in power. And Hitler was running out of money as a party.


    http://spartacus-educational.com/GERkpd.htm
     
  13. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    The idea that Roosevelt saved the world, or even the US is largely discredited today. Many economists believe his socialist methods prolonged the Great Depression which in the US actually ended with his death.
     
  14. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    I did not mean specifically Roosevelt, I about the general influence of the Russian revolution on the world. Many achievement of Europe and the USA in the social sphere became possible because of the Soviet Union. They made concessions to distract the population of the countries from sympathies for communists
     
  15. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    Of course the US wasn't perfect but it was/s a political system fully capable to mend its mistakes itself, i.e. the Americans themselves eradicated all the evil things that were going there - thanks to their rights, freedoms and their well developed political culture.
    The USSR was incapable of correcting itself, because all depended on a bunch of people on the top in Moscow, isolated from the population which itself had no rights, freedoms or even culture.
    By culture i mean the Soviet culture, because obviously the Russian culture, the writers, poets, intellectuals were/are impressive.

    The was segregation in the US but actually it was better to be a racially segregated Negro than a citizen of the Soviet bloc.

    Similarly the Japanese in the so called American concentration camps lived a better life, and were more free than Russians in Moscow at the same time.

    It's true that people died in Dresden and Hiroshima but in war people are expected to die in large numbers. It's generally believed that a brutal, no-holds-barred war is better (shorter, less bloody) than a prolonged one (prolonged because all the well meaning proposed rules, for example sparring cities from war benefit the defender).
    Those people weren't defenceless victims because they had a choice, they could fight back, they could leave the threatened cities, they could surrender.
    The women raped or/and murdered by Soviet soldiers had no choice whatsoever.
    So there was a difference and rather a huge one.

    Although some Soviet soldiers died in prisoners camps in Poland, the death rate actually wasn't much different from the death rate in Soviet or even Austro-Hungarian POW camps.

    You wrote that "Soviet commanders had again and again to pay attention to the state of discipline" but in my small town Soviet soldiers burned down a part of it celebrating the end of WW2. Rapes, murders, looting were common.
    Almost every city, town, village in former German territories has recorded similar occurrences as told by eyewitness. It maybe Wrocław (Breslau), Oświęcim (Auschwitz), or the tiny Srebrna Góra (Silberberg).
    It maybe wasn't millions, but a million, or hundreds of thousands but it was massive and unprecedented.

    And really German women wouldn't declare their children of rape as Russian, but rather would try to hide the shame. The number of declared new born "Russians" at that time in Germany is meaningless.
     
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  16. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    There is Soviet Bolshevism, National Socialism, and New Deal Socialism. All forms of Socialism that were an answer to economic catastrophes.
     
  17. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    The achievements first happened in the nineteenth century Germany and Britain, long before the USSR would come into existence. The USSR was significantly poorer than most developed Western countries, to be like the Soviets it wasn't something the Western workers really wanted.

    The USSR certainly contributed in science, literature, poetry and whatever else it contributed.
    But a free, democratic Russia, in place of the dreaded USSR, would certainly contribute much more.
     
  18. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    How it is possible to escape from nuclear explosion? You joke? Or from carpet bombings? These are only a few seconds, and nobody warned anybody about bombardments in advance! I am not going to acquit Stalin, it is just necessary to be objective. The Soviet Union could also change from 37th year. There was an discrediting of a cult of personality of Stalin, many victims have been rehabilitated. You know, I am very glad for the USA and their democracy (though rather conditional). But you know, it is good when you live in the country which is fenced off by the ocean. With Russia another story, and for a victory over Hitler, for rise after the revolution was necessary a tiran hand. Therefore at all my love to democracy, I am glad that at the hardest moment in the history of my country was ruled by Stalin. It is impossible to compare the USA and the USSR. Russia in the first half of the 20th century has undergone war through 2 revolutions, civil war, World War I, and a Great Patriotic War, the USA didn't wage war in their territory, but has earned big money on world wars. Therefore it is no wonder that the standard of living in the USSR was lower, than in the USA, but after all it is better, than in the American concentration camps, especially at Brezhnev era
    Doesn't follow at all from the fact that not all German women admitted that they have children from the Soviet soldiers that soldiers raped them in hundreds of thousands!
     
  19. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Sure they did. Here's a leaflet that was dropped during the B-29 raids on Japan.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Gerda

    Gerda New Member

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    However there were many sympathies for the Soviet Union and communists, and not only among workers, but also among the intellectuals
     

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