Hello, Firstly may I wish everyone a very Merry Christmas, and best wishes for a Happy & Healthy New Year. My name is Ava, I live in Scotland. I am very interested in Family History, and trying to solve a mystery I have from WWII. Previously I have managed to discover lots of information regarding family who served in WWI, but it is a struggle to find much on the people who served in WWII. I am really not sure that this is a solvable mystery, but hope someone here will be able to point me in the right direction. My mystery is pretty complex I think, but maybe someone here has the experience to help me. One of my family emigrated to USA in 1922, when the war started he was not yet a US National, and in 1940 he joined the ship "Reino del Pacifico". This was registered to The Pacific Steam Navigation Company, and the voyage recorded as "From: Government Services Overseas, to Liverpool". He was engaged at New York, and his role aboard the vessel was Fireman/Trimmer. Arrival on 26 October 1940 at Liverpool. His proposed address was given as "Sailor's Home in Port of Arrival", and permanent future residence stated as England. (He was from Scotland). Various other crew lists record him travelling from New York to UK and other places too, but I noticed some discepancies after finding a few of the records. My relative's name was William Clenaghan, born on 8 February 1899, not a common name, however, not unique. He was my great- grandfather's cousin. Discrepancies are height and weight. Some have him at 5' 3½" and 126 lbs, others show 5' 8" and 171 lbs. Nationality for both is Scottish, and the ages fit with a birth year of 1899. This of course made me think that two people of that name were in the Merchant Navy, but in 1943 the ship "Robert F Hand" made two trips with William Clenaghan aboard in the role of Fireman, from Swansea to NY in Feb-Mar 1943, and Avonmouth to NY in Apr-May 1943. The first trip has height/weight as 5' 3½" and 126 lbs, and the second has 5'8" and 171 lbs. On these records both have a number in columns 16 or 17, and they are the SAME number. 4545949, suggesting to me that there may be two men using same identity. Firstly I don't know if this would have been war service, and secondly would it be possible for this to happen. I am particularly puzzled that the discrepancy would have been missed by the men commanding the vessel, given the time proximity of the journeys. Thank You for reading my post, and hoping someone has some insight into this mystery and be able to point me in the right direction to solve it. Kindest Regards Ava
Welcome! I hope you are able to find some info here that will help you solve this puzzle. This is just a wild guess, but I wonder if the discrepancy can be chalked up to a data entry error. I do a lot of data entry, and when I read your post, I immediately thought of my occasional goof ups. Sometimes the info for Person A gets accidentally entered into Person B's file.
Welcome to this fine forum. I will also echo this. There were som any people to be registered those days that a copy error wouldn't surprise me.
Hello Everyone, thank you all for the warm welcome, which is much appreciated. LoriAnn, I have several records of each description all under the same name. I think it unlikely that the same data entry error would happen so many times, and so consistently, although that was my original thoughts after the first discrepancy, but it repeated over the time span of the records, 1940-1955. There is the odd record where the height for the smaller is 5' 2½" and 125 lbs, and the taller is 170 lbs, but apart from that the others are the original description. These two I mentioned are the ones that give a passport number which appears to link them to the same papers though, that is why I have specifically wrote of these ones, until then I was beginning to believe that another seaman with same name must be in service, and my puzzle then was determining which one was mine. The emigration in 1922 is definitely of my relative, (NOK given, but no height/weight/years service given on this to tie it in with the men in Merchant Navy), it is the crew lists that cause the mystery. Many thanks for your thoughts LoriAnn, your input is very gratefully received. Kindest Regards Ava
Should also have mentioned it is mainly digital copies of the various ships manifest I have, rather than transcriptions of the record. ava
Hi Ava, have you checked whether he has a Seaman's Pouch? http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-seaman-serving-after-1917/ Or anything here? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C15680
Thank You Rich A for your welcome. Mutley, thank you for the links you provided. On my initial search nothing has come up that looks likely, but there is a lot of information that I will browse through, and hope for a better understanding of available Merchant Navy records. It doesn't look like his Seaman's Pouch has survived, but the positive side of that is that I had never heard of SP until now, much appreciated Mutley. (Aside: I had a beloved dog called Molly, my nickname for her was Mutley). I have never had to research Merchant Navy records before, far less the complication of knowing if my relative would have joined with UK or US forces, so really appreciate having this directed help. Kind Regards Ava
Welcome aboard. If you haven't looked around this site you might try. A lot of good info: http://www.usmm.org/men_ships.html
Hello Ace Thank you for your welcome, and also for the link, it looks interesting. I am saving it for tomorrow, having spent today browsing topics around the forum. I have found the site to be very informative, it has been quite an emotional journey. Many thanks to everyone who has sent messages to welcome me and assist my search, I am very grateful to have arrived at this place. Kind Regards Ava
The Information Request sub forum is a good place to ask for help by the way. Not everyone checks here or they may just stop in to say hi and not read things thoroughly. A lot of the poster who know a lot about finding personnel records in particular keep a close eye on the Information Request sub forum. It also makes it easy for those who have similar questions to get a leg up on their searches.
Hi Ava, Findmypast are doing a months subscription for a £1 and I found a lot about your William. I would start a new thread with the title e.g. William Clenaghan, Merchant Navy, R264035. William as a 23 year old steelworker, sailed from Glasgow 14 July 1922 on a ship called Metagama destined for Quebec & Montreal. It went via Belfast and New York. William’s destination was Detroit, Michigan and his mother, Mrs. Helen Clenaghan at 82 Alma Place, Camp Street, Motherwell was given as next of kin. He appears on several ship manifests Arrived New York 21 March 43, a Fireman, on the ‘Robert F. Hand’ from Swansea. There is the number 9545949 against his name but I do not believe this is his service number. Arrived N.Y. from Avonmouth on the Robert Hand again 27 April 43 & 8 May 43. He was probably part of convoys. Here is the link to the National Archives again. This is the reference for the Ship Movement Cards for the ship. It will give you a good insight into what the Robert Hand was doing during his time on board. Costs £3.34 to download but will be worth it http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8655220 He also appears on a ships manifest 17 Oct 43, but it doesn’t state the vessels name. He was engaged in New York 17 Oct 43, this time as a fireman/greaser. Then he arrives NY 3 Sept 44 from Avonmouth on the ‘Seminole’ and again arrives in NY 19 Nov 44 from the port of Ancona, Italy. Interestingly there is a document 30 Nov 44 written by the Master of the Seminole declaring that Willian John Cleneghan had signed on 19 Aug 44 in Avonmouth, but had deserted (I assume in NY). This was part of a convoy. Perhaps he saw too much in Italy or something happening at home made him abscond. Ship movement cards for the Seminole http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8651579 Williams appears to have been in the Merchant Navy since around the WW1 era and you will see documents at findmypast which I believe give William the Dishcarge No: R264035. This is his ‘service’ number and should follow him about during his time in the Merchant Navy. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the one ship manifest that had him down as weighing 171lbs. This was likely a transcription error by the shipping clerk as his weight and height remain fairly consistent on all the other ship manifests. There are other ship manifests, 2 from 1946, 1 from 1952, 2 from 1953 and 1 from 1955 but I didn’t look at those. My uncle also from Glasgow was a Merchant Navy man that died on a convoy in 1941 that’s why I’m interested in these records. “Mutley” I like for no other reason than his dirty laugh. I liked the cartoon and oddly my son likes it too. While I was in the military section at FMP, I couldn’t help noticing a William Clenaghan, Reg. No. 2586, a Private with the Irish Guards, 1st Batt was killed in France 29 Jan 1916. This William was also born in Coatbridge. Any connection? As you say the name is rare in Scotland.
