Estonia and Soviet WW2 memorial
Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:11 AM
The president of Estonia has signed into law a bill allowing the removal of a controversial Soviet war memorial from the centre of the capital Tallinn.
The bronze statue of a Soviet soldier, erected in 1947, is regarded by many as a symbol of Soviet occupation.
However, the large ethnic-Russian population in Estonia see it as a symbol of liberation from the Nazis.
The decision has angered Russia too. The Russian parliament is expected to adopt a statement denouncing the law.
It is thought that several soldiers are buried underneath the monument, and the government argues that it is impossible for their graves to receive the proper respect, when protesters gather and fight at the site.
The statue and the remains of the buried Red Army soldiers will be moved to a cemetery.
Their plans have not just aroused local passions, however.
Russia, which does not agree that the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, has suggested that it is symptomatic of a rebirth of fascism in Estonia.
Moscow described plans in Estonia to criminalise Soviet symbols like the hammer and sickle - effectively equating them with the Nazi swastika - as "blasphemous".
Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:51 AM
Posted 26 April 2007 - 12:03 PM
Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:43 PM
The other side of the this argument is that while so many died getting rid of fascim from this country, it is once again coming alive and even being honored at the highest levels of the cabinet.
Russia views the relocating of the Bronze Statue and its buried soldiers along with the term occupiers as a insult to those who fell defeating the very same people who it seems are now trying to move them.
Is the hatred of Stalin and Communism a justified cause for turning to Hitler and Fascism?
Israel doesnt think so.
Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:08 PM
Posted 27 April 2007 - 06:38 AM
The interesting thing is that there was a riot all through the night, and according to the news these were 14-18 year old youngsters fighting the police and throwing things and breaking windows and shops....what do 14-18 year old know about these things?? And why all the violence?
It seems there are people whose leading politics is violence but the colour of the politics can change....?
Posted 27 April 2007 - 08:33 AM
Posted 27 April 2007 - 07:50 PM
Looks like Russia is facing the problem as well...
I don´t get it but there seems to be something that SOME people find fascinating ??!!
Yes very unfortunate and at the same time a dark side of Russia. These stupid youths which simply dont know any better are the very reason why so many African, Asian and Middle Eastern minorities are fearful for their safety. Unfortunately many countries have them and they are all equally as intelligent. This current period in Russia by some is being compared with the Birth of the KKK in the U.S. ( on a smaller scale ). The government is doing all it can to clamp down and the president even mentioned this problem in his State of the Union speech.
From what I read here Estonians are supposed to be fascists...
Not at all but when their own Government pays respect to the Estonian SS what do you think other countries are going to think?
This monument was imposed by an occupier
And the Germans were liberators??
Estonia removes SS monument
yes indeed.... but mostly due to pressure from other countries.
Estonians honor SS veterans
"Earlier this year Jewish groups were similarly outraged when a statue to a colonel in the SS alleged to have the blood of thousands of Jews and Russians on his hands was erected in the north of the country. The unveiling of the statue - to Colonel Alfons Rebane - was attended by a member of the Estonian parliament and the government itself refused to condemn it, let alone insist on its destruction."
Posted 28 April 2007 - 11:06 PM
What however mostly surprised me was to read that 12% of the Russian minority in Estonia had no nationality...
Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:30 AM
Posted 29 April 2007 - 08:04 AM
Posted 29 April 2007 - 11:15 AM
Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra...
Posted 29 April 2007 - 04:09 PM
Really? There was even a Russian Estonian stabbed to death and a second night of riots.
I myself am quite familiar with the current events in Estonia... However what I meant was that this current situation is getting absolutely no media attention here in the U.S. not a single channel has reported it. I myself find this a little bizarre, afterall when the protesters in Russia were broken up by the riot police ( in a way which I disagreed with ) this was all over the news and Russia was strongly criticized.... However when riots occur for 2 days in a NATO country like Estonia, a person dies and more 750 are arrested all due to a Russian WW2 Monument being moved along with some soldiers that are burried there I hear nothing.... hmmmm
Posted 29 April 2007 - 07:22 PM
I can give you a media link but it's in French.
Posted 29 April 2007 - 08:02 PM
So much for fair and balanced on the so called free speech.
Posted 29 April 2007 - 08:28 PM
The statues removal seems to have acted like a trigger rather than any kind of genuine cause. Reading into it I get the feeling that a Russian minority that feels severely restricted within the relatively 'new' Estonia would be looking for any old excuse for a riot/protest around about now.
I know in many of the former USSR's states it is becoming impossible for ethnic Russians to obtain passports because of the nationality issue referenced by Skipper, a quick web-search didn't confirm whether this is the case in Estonia, anyone know?
It's only the Internet...
Posted 29 April 2007 - 11:46 PM
Posted 30 April 2007 - 09:34 AM
Posted 30 April 2007 - 06:33 PM
" Ivan´s war " only the members of the communist party were informed of their son´s/daughter´s death in WW2 to begin with the Red Army. What happened to the ones who were not party members? Not interested in those back then?
2. Even if there are corpses how can they be recognized and anyone informed? The Red Army did not have dog tags or did they?
3. How can Duma claim the resignation of an independent government? Or are were going back to Stalin times?
4. Should we discuss the Ribbentrop Molotov deal first or am I correct that neither the USSR or Russia had admitted this one?? Or the deportations in Estonia/ Baltic countries in 1940-1941?
5. Why is it not possible to put the memorial to another place? It is not like detroying it? I don´t recall anyone saying a thing when all those Lenin statues were wrecked and brought down.
Like all political questions I´m asking a lot so don´t get mad or you already lost it....
Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:35 AM
I understand Russia's attitude though. Other countries had to digest the loss of an Empire and had the hardest time not intefering in internal affairs of former colonies. But just like those other countries, Russia will have to accept its neighbours and stop giving democracy lessons.
Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:12 PM
I am afraid that when all is said and done, it will be Estonia not Russia who will feel the full weight of this decision.
Posted 01 May 2007 - 07:17 PM
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