First,I admit I have almost zero knowledge on the PTO (I'm a "East Fronter" )

Situation:

Stalin was pressing UK/USA for an invasion in the ETO for many years. Answer was: unpossible, too risky, Dieppe, we're not strong enough etc.

Now as early as back in Aug. 42 the U.S. began to land troops in Guadacanal, starting their "island hopping".

Question:

Is this a shift away from the "Europe first" strategy? How much resources did the U.S.'s amphibious landing operations consume? Where this units transferred to Europe to be part of "Torch", Sicily or "D-Day"?

What was the reason for the decision to send U.S. forces on "invasion" operations in the PTO instead of saving them for ETO in (maybe) 1943?

Thanks for your help,

Cheers,

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

Hi Andy: There are a couple of reasons for sending troops to the Pacific. First, even though the Government had declared Germany to be the first priority, much of the American Public felt that Japan should be Priority One due to Pearl Harbor. Second, after the fall of Bataan and Corrigedor, McCarthur's promise of "I shall return" had to be acted on in some way. The US troops that were sent to the Pacific had to put the Japanese in check in order to help keep them out of Australia. As far as the "island hopping" strategy, that was designed to avoid all islands that had massed Japanese forces on them although in some instances they had to be taken ( Iwo Jima for example). If all US troops had been sent to Europe, Japan would have had free reign in the Pacific, and more importantly they would have had time to fortify themselves even more on multiple islands which would have led to more casualties.

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The soldier above all others prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. General Douglas Macarthur

It was also because with the strategic/pilitical situation at the time, the US could not let Australia get cut off, which is what wouldve happened had the Nips taken the Canal.

Btw, the initial landing, and bulk of the fighting on Guadalcanal was done by 1 division, The first marine division. Which held henderson feild for 5 months all alone.

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Originally posted by CvM:
Exactly; and its not just Australia. The IJN could have returned and done more damage to Pearl Harbor, perhaps hitting the oil storage and even maybe launching an amphibious assault. Regardless of who was the "priority," Japan was the greater threat to America. Plus it was estimated that if the Japanese got into a position to launch an invasion of the west coast, they would get to Chicago before we could offer serious resistance. I dont know the validity of that estimate, but it was the belief of the time.

Also, Island hopping requires very little troops in comparison to a continental campaign. To invade and hold a coast line in Europe is by far more difficult and requires much more men than a measly island.

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"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

OMG, for once me and dasreich agree on something!!

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Im keeping my eyes peeled for the four horsemen...

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"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

Exactly. germany was fighting in the Eastern Front and with the RN there it was impossible in every way that USA could have been threatened. But Japan could have invaded if not continental USA, Hawaii Isles and therefore rule the whole Pacific, making it a Nip lake.

But well, the USA was the only nation in any military conflict in History which achieved fighting a two fronts war successfully and won. I can't imagine what would have happened to Japan or Germany if the yank giant would have been used entirely against a single enemy...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I do: You would appreciate democracy

You know what i mean freid.

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If the USA had focused totally on Japan, we could have won in late '43, but that would mean sacrificing NA, the soviets taking much more critical losses, and possibly the defeat of Great Britain. And had we focused on Germany, we may have ended the war a year earlier, but we already were somewhat focusing on Germany. And Japan might have knocked us clean out of the Pacific. Either case a disaster. But your right Friedrich-I cant think of any other country in modern times to fight on two fronts and win. I guess you could say "we had to."

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"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

No, I won't.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

No, I won't. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Stop bothering, CRAL! (it's Friedrich, not fried, nor freid, OK?) [img]tongue.gif[/img] By the way, check the little flag I used.

Well, it was because the industry and the human power, das Reich. But you did it quite well.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

We also did quite well with the soviet union!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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No, you didn't! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It was because of bad leaders which did not realise how important the economy was... And stop bothering, I am already seeming like a red, and I am not one!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

you know i sit here and wait like 6 months for a good pacific question, and finally get too busy to check...and then come back and what's here! A question for the pacific lol ...and since i'm so late, now i have nothing to say... go fig!

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Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill

Why dont you create another PTO thread for us Ron? This is a welcome change from the East Front...at least for a little while.

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"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

Thanks for the posts so far.

What I don't understand is the how much Guadacanal and the diversion of U.S forces (necessary or not) influenced the U.S:/CW ability to invasion Western Europe in 1943.

Basically especially Uncle Joe blamed the WAllies to invaded teh "Forterss Europe" as late as in mid-1944, at a time when the backbone of the Wehrmacht was already crushed by the USSR.

Let's assume the U.S. would have commited only a minimal necessary number of forces to the PTO to delay Japanese advance, putting her unconditional priority on first killing off Germany in 1943/44...for sure the japanese would have used that to thier advantage, but they would have faced the almost full U.S. and Soviet military power since 1944: Isn't that what the "europe first" strategy was meant to be?

Strategically, once Germany surrendered, Japan was lost, anyway (and they knew it), but not vice versa.

Cheers,

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

Well, pour Germany...

I totally agree. Ron, don't play the passive here. Make threads about the PTO and give us some good lessons!!!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Hi Andy: Up until early to mid '43 there were only 8 US Divisions plus 3 Marine Divisions in the Pacific. You cant get more mininal than that.

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The soldier above all others prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. General Douglas Macarthur

Because the fighting was on a smaller scale in the pacific. Battalions, and regimental combet teams, not divisions

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However, the PTO was bloodier and it required A LOT of resources. Perhaps not too much men, but a lot of ships, aeroplanes, submarines and landing crafts. If can see Andy's point here. What if all those resources would have been put against Germany? Oh, that sacres me...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Greetings,

As my first post, i'd like to add some info to this topic.

When the Battle for Guadalcanal started it was Aug 7 1942, and continued until the tokyo express was used to ferry troops from this Island of Death on Feb 9 1943. Mop up operations continued til much later tho.

Torch was initiated Nov 8 1942 and resulted in the surrender of Axis forces on 13 May 1943, from all of North Afrika.

The Battle of Stalingrad began about Aug 23 1942
culminating with the surrender of 6th army on
Feb 2 1943.

All three of these events resulted in German and Japanese defeats.

The 1st Marine division spearheaded Operation Watchtower
16,000).

Operation Torch consisted of three invasion forces broken down as follows:
1st Infantry and 1st Armored
31,000 men)
Regimental Combat Teams (RCT) of the 9th Infantry and 34th Infantry divisions.
32,000 men)
3rd Infantry, 9th Infantry(-), 2nd Armored divisions (34,000 men)

During the course of these operations The majority of Resources went to the ETO.
Smaller amounts went to the PTO.
The Marines were literally on a "Shoestring" budget. Still using Springfield 1903 bolt action rifles.
The U.S. Army using M1's.
Marine armor M3a1 Stuarts
U.S. Army armor M4 Shermans and Grants and Stuarts.
The Marines held Henderson Field, which was subject to bombardment and possible capture.
North Africa after the Vichy French surrendered had many airfields to choose from to project airpower.

IMHO, Stalin would have asked for a Second Front no matter what the situation was. The fact is if u add up the Battle for the Atlantic, North Africa, Air operations in the west, and Italy, prior to D-Day. It amounted to a second Front. The germans could not ignore the loss of men and material to Allied pounding in the Air, Land And Sea.

The use of 1 Elite Marine Division to capture a potentially dangeous airfield in Aug 42, did more in the long run for the overall War Effort, than adding it to the ETO could ever have.

Well its a bit longwinded, but i invite any commets.

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Courage is fear singing a hymn arranged for four voices.
Fear passes. But leaves a record of its stay.
You want to be brave. You also want to be.
But your greatest danger is from your fellow human beings.
(Beach Red, Peter Bowman 1945)

RicKhan, welcome aboard!!! I hope you enjoy yourself a lot in this forum and also hope to see many posts from you!

We also need some more PTO buffs, because the very few ones here are always complaining about us, Eastfronters... It would be nice that you came and we all, ignorant Eastfronters would learn something!!!

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Welcome!

Agree with the Eastfronters-view, I'm a protoptype of it (D-Day? What's that? studdering?), my only excuse is that that's was the place where the war was won for the Allies and I have not enough time to study all the sideshows

Cheers,

__________________
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

Well, I agree with Andy in that. It was the most important theatre of the war in Europe, where evrything was decided.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun