I don't know about then, but nowadays they will only be crimes if commited by Christian Caucasians [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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No Rest for the Wicked!

Was it possible for the Soviets to invade Hokkaido before operation Olympic, the invasion of Kyushu, set to begin in November 1945 by the Americans?

The Japanese only had 5 divisions on Hokkaido, and about 170 aircraft, on the other hand the Russian amphibious capabilities were limited.

Its naval forces by August 1945, the Pacific Fleet, had 2 cruisers, 1 flagship, 10 destroyers, 2 torpedo boats, 19 patrol boats, 78 submarines, 10 mine layers, 52 minesweepers, 49 “MO” boats, 204 motor torpedo boats, 1459 battle planes.

Your own list does not mention any infantry or tank landing ships or landing craft, so at most they 'might' disembark on harbours taken by coup de main.

And I would say having the Americans lend some would be problematical, how do you pass a LCT from say Okinawa to Valdivostok?

Also the weather should be pretty bad for sea crossings at the time.

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No Rest for the Wicked!

Im going to are with Za on this one.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

The dropping of these two bombs showed the world the devastating effect that such a weapon can cause on those on the receiving end of such weapons and thankfully to date no more have been used.

Back on the subject I wonder how much information President Truman rec’d on the Battle of Berlin, showing a country going down in defeat would fight a bloody and bitter fight to the end. Or so the information on the Japanese and the island hopping campaigns showed they would fight to the bitter end.

I suspect America was now sick of the war and wanted it too end and bring the GI’s home there is no doubt President Truman had to take a very hard decision invade or use this new deadly weapon.

On a personal note I feel Japan should had been given a bit longer to give there answer before the second Atomic bomb was used, we will never know what could have happen as it’s all now part of our history.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

We have to remember that at the time the A-bomb was considered as just another bomb, although an extremely powerful one. There was none of the cult or mystique for the lack of a better word that developed around atomic and nuclear bombs. That would come later with SAC, MAD, Cold War, CND, etc.

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No Rest for the Wicked!

Hey Richard, what happened to your 42 ???

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

During the war Japan brought many Korean conscripts to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki to work as forced labor. According to recent estimates, about 20,000 Koreans were killed in Hiroshima and about 2,000 died in Nagasaki. It is estimated that one in seven of the Hiroshima victims was of Korean ancestry.


I still think I'll go along with those who argue that the bombings were unnecessary on military grounds saying that Japan was already essentially defeated and ready to surrender.

Eisenhower wrote in his memoir The White House Years:


"In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

The way I see it, using weapons like that is a last resort option only.

Not a friend of the A-weapons myself really but sometimes I have wondered how many world wars there would have been so far without the "total destruction" fear of the A-bomb war....

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Truman´s diary and thoughts on the bomb etc.:

http://www.doug-long.com/hst.htm

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Thanks for the link Kai, I enjoyed it a lot!!

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Interesting Kai,

My favorite Harry Truman quote.

When I was young and deciding on a career, I decided I'd like to be either a piano player in a whorehouse, or a politician.

I now find there's not much difference.

Everyone has an opinion, and I'm not trying to persuade, just writing mine along with the others.

I can't change anyone/anything, and I wont move either. Perhaps we need a piano player?

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"Danger Will Robinson!"

Okinawa. That's the reason why the first bomb was dropped. it was such a brutal and vicious battle that it convinced Truman to use the bomb. every Japanese in Japan was willing to fight to the last man. the war would've gone on another 5 years with over 1/2 million American dead and unknown amounts of Japanese.The first bomb was dropped, no reply from Japan, a few days later a second one was dropped. then came the surrender. Yes Japan would've surrendered anyway. That was inevitable. There were many ways to win the war. But in the end when you sum it up the A-bomb actually saved lives on both sides and brought the quickest possible end to the war.

And one more thing. If there had never been an attack on Pearl Harbor, there would have never been a bomb dropped on Hiroshima or a Nagasaki.

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"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything." Teddy Roosevelt

Another five years? I find that a little hard to believe, please enlighten me on how this could be the case.

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Regards, Richard


"Open channel D"

Ted,

Not sure if the war would off gone another 5 years if the bomb wouldnt have been dropped.

But I do agree that if there was no Pearl Harbor there would have been no A bomb dropped on Heroshima and Nagasaki.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Maybe not 5 years. But that is one of the higher estimates by historians. I didn't make it up, I personally don't know how long it would've taken. I'm simply quoting what "they've" said. Maybe it would've, maybe not, who knows? All i know is that it would've taken alot longer with alot more dead.

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"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything." Teddy Roosevelt

About 2-3 months according to the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey on........ www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm - 164k

The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey reported that the Japanese were on the verge of surrendering and would have done so before Operation Olympic, the invasion of Kyushu, set to begin in November 1945.

The submarine campaign had practically wiped out the Japanese merchant fleet, and food and fuel were at a critical stage by August, plus the bombing was to be stepped up, destroying crops as well as infrastructure.

Wasn´t Germany destroyed completely also by bombing but did it surrender until the "boss" was dead and the country almost completely cut in two by the invading troops?

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The difference was that Hitler wanted Gotterdammerung, that Germany and Germans be obliterated because they weren't worthy enough to be saved.

Hirohito on the other hand had been advising in private that Japan surrender from as early as July and the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey reported that the Japanese would have done so before Operation Olympic, the invasion of Kyushu, set to begin in November 1945.

Yes, but Hitler´s example shows that bombing the country to pieces and food and fuel at critical level does not always do the trick even what the reports say.

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Also keep in mind that the Soviets killed or captured over 1 million Japs in the liberation of Manchuria............this event also sealed the fate for Japan and helped the leaders realize that defeat was inevitable.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

I hear tell that Japan knew the US had "One" bomb, and that they prepared (as much as one could) to accept that hit and to fight on. When the second came down, it was obvious that their intelligence was lacking. Not knowing how many there actually were, and that it was more than the one, they decided to fold, rather than run the bluff to the end of their....South East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.
Don't you just love semantics!
You can dis-prove Gravity with it!

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"Danger Will Robinson!"

It's strange, on one han