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War in the Pacific The Sino-Japanese War, the attack at Pearl Harbor to the atomic bombing of Nagasaki

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Old August 8th, 2007, 03:22 PM
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Default Nishimura Surigao strait

Nishimura order of battle :

4 destroyers Michishio, Asagumo, Shigure and Amagumo then the 2 batttleships Yamashiro (Nishimura's flag) and Fuso followed by the CV-cruiser Mogami

Yamashiro will sink at 4:19
Fuso will explose at 3:39
Michishio, Asagumo and Amagumo will sink too
Mogami will be scutlled next morning

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Old August 8th, 2007, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: Nishimura Surigao strait

For more details on this and other battleship actions you can my article at:

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com...ceactions.aspx
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Old August 8th, 2007, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Nishimura Surigao strait

Here is teh googla translation of my article :

The strait of Surigao

After having wiped without too many damage the air raids of the day, Nishimura, contrary to the initial plan, decides to force the pace and not to await the reinforcement of Shima which follows to 40 miles. It thus decreases its chances to cross the strait or at least to resist the American forces.

The group of bombardment of the 7th fleet, under the orders of the Oldendorf vice-admiral assembled a true trap, using the number to block the strait:

Initially, 49 motor torpedo boats will announce the arrival of the enemy ships before attacking them. Then the flotillas come from destroyers which, on both sides of the strait will attack with the torpedo at 10 minutes of interval.

The final phase of the plan sees the opening of the fire of the battleships and the cruisers placed in two parallel lines prohibiting any passage. The concentrated fire of their artillery is able largely to come to end from preceding attacks. By roof of irony, 5 of the 6 battleships of Oldendorf are the survivors of Pearl Harbor: first to undergo the Japanese attacks, they are again present to complete the japanese navy.


Nishimura penetrates in the strait with 2h50 on October 25, suspecting to in no case from what awaits it. The motor torpedo boats pass at once to the attack but are taken under the fire of the Japanese ships which saw them. Although not having marked any blow with the goal, they strongly disorganized the formation nippone. Benefitting from the disorder which reigns within the squadron, the American destroyers launch a first attack to 3h and sink 2 destroyers and reach the Fuso battleship seriously. The Yamashiro battleship for its part is more slightly damaged. One second attack will be right of Fuso which explodes and runs in a few minutes. Nishimura carries out little time after Fuso does not follow any more and, believing it engaged in the fray, reduced its speed with 5 n?uds to await it. A new torpedo reaches Yamashiro, depriving it of the use of 4 of its 6 turrets.

Although slipping by only to 5 knots, Nishimura approaches the line of American cruisers which open the shooting with 3h51, followed little by the battleships. In 10 minutes, each American ship will draw into 60 and 100 salvos, taking Yamashiro under a flood of fire. Realizing that it does not have the least chance, the Japanese admiral inflects his race towards the south and increases his speed with 15 n?uds. This manoeuvre offers its side to the American torpedes and the ship sinks with 4h19. The heavy cruiser Mogami which had started a half-turn, is found on the road of the squadron of Shima and enters in collision with Nachi. The fate seems to be baited on Mogami, already victim of a collision at the time of the battle of Midway. This time, the undergone damage will be fatal for him: attacked by the United States Air Force as of the first gleams of the day, incompetent to conceal itself, the ship will be finally run by a destroyer.

This battle will remain in the history like last engagement with the gun and sees a crushing victory of the American navy.
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Old April 16th, 2008, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Nishimura Surigao strait

Are you sure about that order of battle, I have something different.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Nishimura Surigao strait

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimitz View Post
Nishimura order of battle :

4 destroyers Michishio, Asagumo, Shigure and Amagumo then the 2 batttleships Yamashiro (Nishimura's flag) and Fuso followed by the CV-cruiser Mogami

Yamashiro will sink at 4:19
Fuso will explose at 3:39
Michishio, Asagumo and Amagumo will sink too
Mogami will be scutlled next morning
Amagumo should be Yamagumo.
Mogami was a CA not a CV

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimitz View Post
Here is teh googla translation of my article :

The strait of Surigao

After having wiped without too many damage the air raids of the day, Nishimura, contrary to the initial plan, decides to force the pace and not to await the reinforcement of Shima which follows to 40 miles. It thus decreases its chances to cross the strait or at least to resist the American forces.

The group of bombardment of the 7th fleet, under the orders of the Oldendorf vice-admiral assembled a true trap, using the number to block the strait:

Initially, 49 motor torpedo boats will announce the arrival of the enemy ships before attacking them. Then the flotillas come from destroyers which, on both sides of the strait will attack with the torpedo at 10 minutes of interval.

The final phase of the plan sees the opening of the fire of the battleships and the cruisers placed in two parallel lines prohibiting any passage. The concentrated fire of their artillery is able largely to come to end from preceding attacks. By roof of irony, 5 of the 6 battleships of Oldendorf are the survivors of Pearl Harbor: first to undergo the Japanese attacks, they are again present to complete the japanese navy.


Nishimura penetrates in the strait with 2h50 on October 25, suspecting to in no case from what awaits it. The motor torpedo boats pass at once to the attack but are taken under the fire of the Japanese ships which saw them. Although not having marked any blow with the goal, they strongly disorganized the formation nippone. Benefitting from the disorder which reigns within the squadron, the American destroyers launch a first attack to 3h and sink 2 destroyers and reach the Fuso battleship seriously. The Yamashiro battleship for its part is more slightly damaged. One second attack will be right of Fuso which explodes and runs in a few minutes. Nishimura carries out little time after Fuso does not follow any more and, believing it engaged in the fray, reduced its speed with 5 n?uds to await it. A new torpedo reaches Yamashiro, depriving it of the use of 4 of its 6 turrets.

Although slipping by only to 5 knots, Nishimura approaches the line of American cruisers which open the shooting with 3h51, followed little by the battleships. In 10 minutes, each American ship will draw into 60 and 100 salvos, taking Yamashiro under a flood of fire. Realizing that it does not have the least chance, the Japanese admiral inflects his race towards the south and increases his speed with 15 n?uds. This manoeuvre offers its side to the American torpedes and the ship sinks with 4h19. The heavy cruiser Mogami which had started a half-turn, is found on the road of the squadron of Shima and enters in collision with Nachi. The fate seems to be baited on Mogami, already victim of a collision at the time of the battle of Midway. This time, the undergone damage will be fatal for him: attacked by the United States Air Force as of the first gleams of the day, incompetent to conceal itself, the ship will be finally run by a destroyer.

This battle will remain in the history like last engagement with the gun and sees a crushing victory of the American navy.
The distance between the two forces was 40 km not miles. the equates to about 25 miles.
There where 39 not 49 torpedo boats
Now that i'm done nit-picking you mention Mogami as a him. I've always heard ships called a she not he. Is that a cultural thing?
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Old April 24th, 2008, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Nishimura Surigao strait

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebatzel View Post
Amagumo should be Yamagumo.
Mogami was a CA not a CV
Sorry but i've written a CV-cruiser.
In fact, Mogami was first considered as a light cruiser (155mm guns) then after modernization (203mm) a real CA, then converted as CV-CA (as Ise and Hyuga were converted as CV-BB)
Here is the Mogami as it appeared during the battle



Quote:
The distance between the two forces was 40 km not miles. the equates to about 25 miles.
There where 39 not 49 torpedo boats
Oups, you're right!
Thanks a lot for these corrections. Nobody's perfect ... so i've made mistakes

Quote:
Now that i'm done nit-picking you mention Mogami as a him. I've always heard ships called a she not he. Is that a cultural thing?
What do you mean??? I've not understood, my english being too poor...
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Old April 24th, 2008, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Nishimura Surigao strait

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimitz View Post
What do you mean??? I've not understood, my english being too poor...
Well, here in the US we refer to a navy vessel as a she. Even when the name is masculine, like the USS Ronald Reagan. I would refer to the ship as ‘she is a nuclear powered carrier'. You mention the Mogami as a he. I was wondering if in your country all ships are referenced as a he. It is more a cultural question than a military question.
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Anyone who clings to the historically untrue--and thoroughly immoral--doctrine that 'violence never solves anything'... Violence, naked force, has settled more disputes in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." Robert Heinlein
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Nishimura Surigao strait

Yes of course!!
I've completle forgotten that in english all ships are "female"

Lady Lex if i remember well by example.

In french, we use "le" wich equal "he" : le Strasbourg

Am i rght with my profile of Mogami? (self made)
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Last edited by nimitz; April 25th, 2008 at 07:45 AM.
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