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War in the Pacific The Sino-Japanese War, the attack at Pearl Harbor to the atomic bombing of Nagasaki

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Old June 30th, 2008, 07:19 AM
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Default Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Karel Willem Frederik Marie Doorman (April 23, 1889, UtrechtFebruary 28, 1942, Java Sea) was a Schout-bij-nacht (the Dutch equivalent of a Rear Admiral) during World War II.





He was originally a naval aviator in the Royal Netherlands Navy but quickly rose through the ranks to become Schout-bij-nacht in 1940.
In early 1942 he was made commander of the combined American, British, Dutch and Australian (ABDA) fleet in the Dutch East Indies, a force consisting of cruisers and destroyers.
Doorman became a Dutch naval hero because of his supposed last words to the fleet: „Ik val aan, volg mij!” ('I'm attacking, follow me'). In reality, he only issued the command All ships follow me to prevent confusion when the damaged HMS Exeter sailed back to harbour. Doorman just wanted to indicate that his ships should follow him and not the Exeter.
Karel Doorman died when his flagship De Ruyter was struck by a Japanese torpedo and sank during the Battle of the Java Sea. He voluntarily remained with the crippled and wounded who could not abandon ship, thereby honoring the naval tradition to go down with the ship he commanded.
Several ships of the Royal Netherlands Navy have been named Karel Doorman.


sources: wikipedia ; vlaggeship Smaldeel 5
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Old June 30th, 2008, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

I've always admired the smaller allied nations pre-1943.

I think the Danish were probably my favorite nation during the world war. (If that makes a whole lot of sense)
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Old June 30th, 2008, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkerace View Post
I've always admired the smaller allied nations pre-1943.

I think the Danish were probably my favorite nation during the world war. (If that makes a whole lot of sense)
I'm afraid I'm a bit confused Why Denmark and why pre-1943? Is it possible you meant Dutch instead of Danish?
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Old June 30th, 2008, 12:01 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Thanx for this excellent piece of info, Skipper! ( again!)
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Old June 30th, 2008, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

My pleasure Kai, he is one of "my" heroes
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Old June 30th, 2008, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Thanks Skipper!
How did you become interested in this man? Is there a book I can read?

Thanks!!
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This is a pair of Dutch resistance crystal radios, built into a small metal can, and a matchbox. The image is from a postcard bought at a Dutch Resistance Museum in Amsterdam. The matchbox is marked in Swedish, but Swedish matches were sold in Holland for many years.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

I knew you would like this story. There are many , books about the Battle of the Java sea.



I recommend this one


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Old June 30th, 2008, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Great stuff!!
Thanks buddy!
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This is a pair of Dutch resistance crystal radios, built into a small metal can, and a matchbox. The image is from a postcard bought at a Dutch Resistance Museum in Amsterdam. The matchbox is marked in Swedish, but Swedish matches were sold in Holland for many years.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Your's welcome. There is a lot of info on the internet about this subject and there are many sites and books dedicated to Doorman. Te Java sea has also been discussed in this section.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipper View Post
I knew you would like this story. There are many , books about the Battle of the Java sea.



I recommend this one


Google Image Result for http://www.whsmith.co.uk/Images/Products%5C551%5C860%5C551860_t_f.jpg
Whoever wrote the description needs to brush up on their history; there were no battleships on either side at the Battle of the Java Sea.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 06:15 PM
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DateFebruary 27, 1942LocationJava SeaResultDecisive Japanese VictoryBelligerents Royal Netherlands Navy
United States Navy
Royal Navy
Royal Australian Navy Imperial Japanese NavyCommandersKarel Doorman
Conrad HelfrichTakeo TakagiStrength2 heavy cruisers
3 light cruisers
12 destroyers1 fleet carrier
2 heavy cruisers
2 light cruisers
14 destroyers
10 transportsCasualties and losses3 cruisers sunk
5 destroyers sunk
2,300 sailors killed4 loaded troop transports sunk
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Old July 4th, 2008, 04:06 AM
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Default

Gents,

As my first contribution to the forum I would like to provide you all with the order of battle for Java Sea and the fall of Burma:

Japanese Invasion Force; Third Fleet, Dutch Indies Force, Main Body

Direct Support Force (for both east and west Java invasions)
armored cruisers: Ashigara, Myoko
destroyers: Asashio, Oshio, Arashio, Kawakaze

Western Java Invasion Force
SUPPORT FORCE
armored cruisers: Mikuma, Mogami, Kumano, Suzuya
destroyers: Amagiri, Asagiri, Yugiri

THIRD ESCORT FORCE
light cruisers: Natori, Yura
destroyers: Asakaze, Harukaze, Hatakaze, Natsukaze, Fubuki, Shirayuki, Hatsuyuki, Satsuyuki, Minazuki, Fumizuki, Nagatsuki, Shirakumo, Murakumo, Hibiki, Akatsuki, Hatsuharu

FIRST AIR GROUP
light carrier: Ryujo

TRANSPORT FORCE
Fifty-six transports

Eastern Java Invasion Force
SUPPORT GROUP
armored cruisers: Nachi, Haguro
destroyers: Ikazuchi, Akebono

FIRST ESCORT FORCE
light cruiser: Naka
destroyers: Murasame, Harusame, Yudachi, Samidare, Asagumo, Natsugumo, Minegumo, Yamakaze

SECOND ESCORT FORCE
light cruiser: Jintsu
destroyers: Kuroshio, Oyashio, Hayashio, Hatsukaze, Yukikaze, Amatsukaze, Sazanami, Ushio, Tokitsukaze

FIRST BASE FORCE
light cruiser: Nagara
destroyers: Hatsuharu, Nenohi, Wakaba

SECOND BASE FORCE
seaplane tenders: Chitose, Mizuho

TRANSPORT FORCE
Forty-one transports

ABDA Combined Strike Force for the Defense of East Java

armored cruisers: Houston (USN), Exeter (RN)
light cruisers: Java (RNN), De Ruyter (RNN), Perth (RAN)
destroyers: John D. Edwards, Paul Jones, John D. Ford, Alden, Pope - (USN);
Electra, Jupiter, Encounter - (RN); Witte de With, Kortenaer - (RNN)

Vessels marked in red fought at the Battle of the Java Sea 27 February 1942.

Sources:

"A Battle History of the Imperial Japanese Navy (1941-1945)" Paul S. Dull

History of United States Naval Operations in World War II Volume III "The Rising Sun in the Pacific 1931-April 1942" Samuel Eliot Morison

Last edited by Bill m.; July 4th, 2008 at 04:15 AM.
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Old July 4th, 2008, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

cheers Bill, thanks for the detailled information
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Old July 4th, 2008, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

He was a real hero. He faced odds and did his best and in the end, he chose to be with those who suffered under his command.
His act of staying on his doomed flagship somehow reminds me of Admiral Kimmel's fate in Hawaii.
Kimmel was quoted as saying that he would've been better off if the piece of shrapnel that hit him during the Pearl Harbor attack had killed him.
Just wondering if history would've been kinder with Kimmel had he died at Pearl Harbor.
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Old July 4th, 2008, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

You're welcome skipper and I agree with your posting, Doorman was a hero. I also agree with Falcon. If Kimmel has died at Pearl he would have went down as America's first hero of the war. His life would have become legend.

Cheers
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Old July 4th, 2008, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

Thanks for that Bill, nice first post! I have so much reading to do!
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This is a pair of Dutch resistance crystal radios, built into a small metal can, and a matchbox. The image is from a postcard bought at a Dutch Resistance Museum in Amsterdam. The matchbox is marked in Swedish, but Swedish matches were sold in Holland for many years.
.
Scott
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Old July 6th, 2008, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Karel Doorman a Dutch hero.

"...I have so much reading to do!"

LOL!! You and me both!

Cheers
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