Dear Smokestack, thanks for the link, I will check it out.

Dear Paul, you are most likely correct on the "3rd" Tiger. The auther I had b3ased what I said about it, has been known form having not-so-accurate of info in some of his books.

I do have some good info on Tigers but my books are in storage out of town and I dont know just when I will have access to them to check for sure. When I do find something out, I will post it on this site.

PS, I dont mind being correted when need be, so if you find other things by me thats not correct--by all means--correct me. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Here is a link with pictures(artist conceptualized) of 3 of the E tanks. Plus drawings and pics of models of the E100.
Check it out guys. http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/eh.html

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It's a sick, sick world. I'm a happy man.

Excellent, excellent!! I just spent about 90 minutes looking there.

I was surprised that they did not show an actual photo of a Maus. The one im talking about is oft used in books and had already been captured and is seen without its tracks.

Damn good site though [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I liked the pics of the models, though, C. I can live without a real photo of the "Maus that never roared", seeing how nicely done the models were--all of them.

Your ob't servant,
Paul

How many tons was a maus. Some one told me that it was too heavy for most roads.

__________________
"Front leaning rest position"
"Move"
"In cadence, exercise....1, 2, 3" (My favorite thing to hear at 5 in the morning.)

Some say the Maus weighed 150 tons, some guess it may have weighed as much as 188 tons, others say 165. So I guess no one really knows for sure [img]smile.gif[/img] , it all depends on what book you read. 188 tons seems to be the(current)general consensus though.

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It's a sick, sick world. I'm a happy man.

Check out these links for AFV info: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer.htm http://www.xs4all.nl/~basvz/ http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/ http://www.ordmusfound.org/ http://www.eliteforcesofthethirdreich.com/ http://www.panzerdiesel.com/

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It's a sick, sick world. I'm a happy man.

Paul, I liked that, "The mouse that never roared".

I read it was also weighing at over 150 tons. That it would take the width of three normal bridges to move across it.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I don't understand the purpose of the maus. That late in the war Germany was scraping the botton of the barrel for material and that tank used up alot of material. Plus it was slow and would have a hell of a time manvering on a battlefield. To me it just seems like some one went wild on making a bigger King Tiger and lost control.

But I'm not an expert on this and I wouldn't be suprized if I was totally wrong about the Maus.

__________________
"Front leaning rest position"
"Move"
"In cadence, exercise....1, 2, 3" (My favorite thing to hear at 5 in the morning.)

No, your right. The Maus program can be traced back to late '42 and much like the Spruce Goose, had enough steam to keep from being stopped.

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It's a sick, sick world. I'm a happy man.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

The PzKpfw VI "Tiger" was absolutely worth it! It could have been too heavy,not very reliable, less manouvreable and very expensive.But it showed during all the war it was worth it. My grandfather saw them in action. Once they were retreating from Leningrad in 1944, three tigers destroyed 67 T-34 ( which is considered the best tank of the war ).Its armour, the deadliest cannon in the word, the 88 made it worth it! Do not say me it was not worth it! It was able to resist an attack from a KB-1 and iosif Stalins...

If you have some comments, write to FriedrichH984794@aol.com

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Did I ever mention that a descendant of Carius was one of my Unteroffiziere?

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„Solange man nicht mit dem Kopf unterm Arm rumläuft geht es doch noch!" Erwin Rommel

If it wasn't for the tiger we would lose out on a lot of fun talking about it and dreaming having one.

__________________
"Front leaning rest position"
"Move"
"In cadence, exercise....1, 2, 3" (My favorite thing to hear at 5 in the morning.)

Hello again Friedrich--I totally agree that the Tiger tanks were more than worth it...

Andreas--thats cool--did he ever tell you anything much about his famous relative?

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

My opinion:

Tiger was a good vehicle for the job - breaking through isolated sections of defensive terrain allowing for other vehicles to exploit.

On page 3, someone asked what we would rather command - 200 Shermans, or 80 Tigers.

I'd command the Support Element so your 80 Tigers can continue to take the field tommorrow.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

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- Modus -
modus@thmodus.com
Obergefreiter Hermann Van der Waal
25. Panzer Grenadier Division

Of course I will take the 80 tigers without any hesitation, it is a whole batallion! What could one have done with 80 bloody tigers together? A masacre of Allied tanks.

My grandfather told me once that when he asisted to a veterans reunion in London people got up their seats and left because the stupid things they were saying about the Brittish tanks... He herad someone saying: "Tank builders were awarded with medals after the war. If they would have been decent people they would have given them back!" He is happy that he had no complaints about the tanks he served with...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

All I can say is a Battalion of Tigers would massacre a Division of Shermans--except for Sherman TDs and Fireflys.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I think i an going to go against the grain here. While the Tiger is my absoloute favorite tank, i think with hindsight it was a mistake, as was the Tiger II.

While Germany could never match its enemies combine production, it had to out produce them in quality. But the Tiger was going to far. The Pz IV managed to keep up with most enemy tanks, while the Panther, after some probelms, out performed them. If all tank production had been concentrated on these two, then they would have been able to field many more tanks.

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'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT

Gentlemen :

I still think we have to look at reality. what happened to the Heer and W-SS Tiger equipped units in mid 1944-45 They were put on the defensive with only a handful of attacks, many by singular units. What better weapon than have a handy 8.8 cm at your finger tips and have it mobile. Must make mention of the actions of the almost unknown SS Schwere Panzer Abteilung and it's costly fight from Pommerania through to the end at Danzig and finally Berlin. From a mere 45 Tiger II's along with the stug contingent of 11th SS Pz. Grendaier Abt. the two units knocked out over 400 tanks while at least with the tiger II unit, lost all by in action or running out of fuel and the crew destroying the valuable wagens......

E

I definitely think the Tiger tanks were worth the effort from German industry. Although their offensive qualities were severely limited, they ruled the battlefield on the defensive. The western Allied troops were scared sh*tless as soon as they heard the unmistakeable grumble of those engines. The Russians were probably feeling that same cold chill when facing those machines. Hell, they even specially designed the ISU-152 tank destroyers just to deal with the Tigers in defensive positions.

The Tigers were so worth it! The Germans had to build tanks that had a qualitive superiority over the Allied quantitive superiority. The Germans could not build tanks in the numbers that the Allies could so they built the Tigers instead. Any other tank just wouldn't do!

Does anyone know how the Panther armour compared to the Tiger's? What is the Panther's sloped armour equivalent to in terms of vetical armour? ie the Tigers.

[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: Madcap7 ]</p>

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
Homer Simpson

Yes. We all the most agree that the Tiger was superior to any allied tanks. What would you have prefered? Being thrown into the Russian lines at Kursk, facing amazing numbers of quick T-34s or resting calmly into the woods, expecting something to come and knocking it off? You just have to wait and move the bloody turret, then shooting ducks in a lake! Who cares then if you can sink into the mud or that you are just a little bit faster than the infantry? You are 60 tons of power and precise eingeneering.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Well, the TIger was faster than many of the tanks it faced, and had a lower ground pressure. But the problem with your presice piece of engineering is that it needs an experianced hand at the wheel. This at a time when German tanks drivers had little experiance before going to units. And it also needs the tracks to be changed before being moved by rail, and changing tracks is an AFVs crews biggest pain in the arse. They are a nightmare to recover, and take more fuel than other tanks.

__________________
'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT