You guys need to secure a volume on the Hs 129 by English author Martin Pegg

E

True, the Pegg book is definitive, but it is also very big and expensive. I can recommend "Hs 129 in Action" by Denes Bernad, from Squadron/Signal, which is a fraction of the price. This describes and illustrates the major variations very clearly.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

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Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

I saw that somebody made a reference to the Hurricane being withdrawn from Europe in 1944 because it could not deal with Tigers.

The insane thing gents is that this airframe was versatile enough to soldier on through until 1944 having reached operational squadrons from 1937 onwards. Truly a testament to the genius of Sidney Camm. There are not many other airframes that could boast this achievement.

I have to go with the Typhoon/Tempest mix. P47 tends to lose it's sting after the payload has gone - I'd prefer the 20mm cannons to .50 cal machine guns to chew up ground targets.

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Playing silly, today.

Which was the best GA air-craft? Don't know. What if we ask the 500 tanks crews who faced Herr Rudel?!

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

That is IF Rüdel indeed destroy that many Panzers ! Personally I think his claims are also from many of his Kameraden in SG 3. Even his memories written do not give sufficent dates to his claims. Guess we will wait for the future monster book on the Ju 87 to be released in the near future by English author M. **** ! With all his research over the years I am hopefull we can come to positive conclusion(s) about Rüdel and all the Panzerstaffeln aces.

E

Crap ! my hands are in bad shape today so typing is going to be tedious.....

Should read for his unit SG 2 "Immelmann"

E

Well, I didn't know that guy existed until I first entered this forum and made some research. I would be good to know what exactly did he do.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

F :

I can believe that R destroyed maybe 350 tanks but you have to look at the rest of the men in his unit. It always appears that R and his gunner are all alone flying the Soviet skies looking for prey. I don;t buy that he was alone for a second, that others of his unit were also there. Rüdel did have the ultimate knack for scoring, he was that good, but there were also some other high scorers in SG 1, 3 and 77 as they should not be overlooked, but that have been. I am trying to compile a listing of the top notch Schlacht aces and I am getting brief information just because there isn't that much on these brave men, and also nothing has been written except Rüdels memories which indeed have not given many basic facts. Sure there hsas been a multitude of photos of the man and his staff but text is simple and quite little in the way of good material. Again the big out print book on the Hs 129 by Martin Pegg would be a chocie book to have and worth the monies if you could find a copy, but even so a total tally for the individaul staffeln that flew the bird is not given. Why, I have no clue....

E

The Hurri lasted a bit longer in the Far East, where the 40mm remained effective against Japanese tanks. The last squadron stood down in June 1945.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

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Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

A Colt 0,45 can pierce a Japanesse tank!!!

I told you, playing silly today...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Tony :

speaking of the 3.7cm equipped on the Ju 87G variants. Were all the rounds tungsten cored ? I don't remember if HE rounds were used or not.

thoughts please

E

The anti-tank rounds were tungsten-cored. However, the plane was sometimes used against other targets (Rudel once went hunting boats which were transporting enemy troops across a large lake) and HE might have been used then - it would certainly have been more effective, and of course the ammo would have been readily available from a Flak unit.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

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Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

Il-2 clearly superior to anything the Germans fielded. people tend to overlook the attributes of reliability, ease of manufacture (and repair,) durability, affordability.
What would be more effective, more cost-productive: an Hs-129 or 3 Sturmoviks? (I'm guessing at the ratio, but it's probably close.)
Engine performance is more critical than weapons systems. The 600hp. Gnome-Rhones on the 129 immediately take it out of the running. When you add to that the engine's poor design and unreliability, the plane is a certain contender for the "Pig" pile. (I mean... after the fall of France, the Germans were left with a bunch of these crappy French airplane engines; so, they tried to figure a way to build a good airplane around them. And they failed.)
The Typhoon was a work of art, and the design of the engine was a remarkable achievement, but, here you've got a delicate powerplant, which was difficult to repair and very expensive. At this stage of the war, the Allies could afford to experiment with sophisticated, expensive designs.
The narrow applications of the Ju-87 were what forced the Germans to consider other designs (such as the 129.)
The P-47, Corsair, Mustang, P-38, and all the U.S. planes totally out-classed anything out there. Again, because of their massive powerplants, they could carry more weapons, at a greater speed. The Pratt engine of the Thunderbolt was stronger than the FOUR combined engines of two Hs-129s!
Radial-engined P-47s and Corsairs were resiliant to ground fire and very reliable.
Compare a Ju-87 against a P-51D and you're looking at planes from two different eras. Could you imagine a Ju-87 flying ground attack in Korea?
The German planes definitely have a certain neat-o factor, like the Me-410 or He 219, but in the real world none of them would be my first choice.

Tony Williams:
Welcome to the forum. I've posted this image before. Maybe you have some ideas as to what model German plane this is (was.)
Photo was taken early in 1945.
Location is either Holland or Belgium, but could be Germany.
My humble opinion is that it is some sort of short-range reconnaisance/aerial observation/army cooperation a/c, somewhat similar in function to the Siebel SI 201.
I do not believe it is a trainer, as it is single seat. Although, it could be a trainer for a specific type of plane.

What's the purpose iof the mickey mouse emblem ?

the glider you speak of is a training item used by pre operative Luftwaffe pilots. Maybe one in two dozen different prototypes used during the war. Camo'd and id in US markings.

Thanks, Erich for the ID.
The mouse was just part of a collection of emblems I have on file. I don't suppoe I had any specific purpose in attaching it to the end of my post, other than, perhaps, it was an image related to the topic of discussion--although, only vaguely.
The blue mouse is associated with ground attack, and was probably a more appropriate image--although somewhat less elegant (if the word can at all be used in this circumstance.)
If, then, for no other reason than to provide the correct mouse, I shall do so below:



Please disregards previous mouse.
I might bring him out again should we return to the subject of fighter aircraft.

Ok Knoght you were losting me a little. Yes, Mickey for Herr Galland, now can you ID the blue background maus of what Schlacht unit ?

As for the enclosed glider-tug, the pilots I have interviewed usally took up a Hitler Jugend air course earlier in the war with simple crash-helmets on and quite an open cockpit if you want to call it that. A most exillurating experience they have all told me with many crashes and broken limbs. Still the high light of the pre-operative careers for most of these men....we are going to be pilots !

E

Erich Brown,
Quoting from Ries, [i]Markings and Camoflage...[i], pg. 75:

II./SG 1
ab Oktober 1943 II./SG 2
enstanden aus dem Zeichen
der 4. II (S) / LG 2
Fw 190 G, F
Hs 123
(info on emblem positioning omitted)

And for everyone who enjoys decrypting the arcane ID system employed by the Luftwaffe:

pg. 19 ibid.:

The ground support formations (SG) had the badge of the unit and the infantry assault insignia painted in white on the nose or under the cockpit in many cases. White or yellow fuselage rings indicated the operational area of these units.
During the years 1942, 1943 and early 1944, the standard identification symbol for the ground support formations was a solid black, equilateral triangle, outlined in the Staffel color of the time, painted on the operational a/c of the Hs 123, Hs 129 and Fw 190 types. The Ju 87 Staffeln did not have such identification symbol. About March 1944, this triangle disappeared and the low ground-support units painted a horizontal or vertical bar as Gruppe identification behind the balkenkreuz, thus adopting the system of the fighter formations. The marking in front of the Balkenkreuz on the fuselage, remained different; a code letter or number in the respective Staffel color was used until the end of the war. There was no uniform ruling.

The Stuka has more charm than any allied plane... And it was certainly very, very effective, when we had air superiority, of course... But I agree with the IL-2s and the Western allies aeroplanes.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Knight :

Nice scan of 2./St 77

dang, I wish I had a scanner ! maybe Christmas as I have been seeking one out for over two years. Too may scans to develop and send , even to guys on this board like Andreas. My techno friend works for the government as is overseas. do I say where ? No, he would come back and shoot me......

E

Erich,
Let me know if there's a particular unit you're looking for.
I've chosen 3./JG 52 as my avatar image (red cross.) But, I can't seem to get it posted on the avatar selection page--even though I e-mailed it to the site. Is this something which takes a long time?
So, I remain avatarless : (
Also, I have an idea for a discussion thread, although the topic may be too controversial for the forum. If you have a minute, take a look at the topic here:
http://www.klopman.net/ww2forum.txt
Martin Bull: if you're out there, maybe you could take a look, also, and let me know what you think.
The text introducing the topic is very long, but, it really has to be, in order to present the issue in the proper context.
Thanks for your time.
It may indeed be inapproporiate, but, I believe you both will find the material very interesting.
[url]http://www.klopman.net/tank1.jpg[/img]

Knight :

I will do that and select a abzeichen and let you know.

Be patient about the Avatar's, I would suggest writing Peppy privately since he does all the avatar work around here. Give him some time though as he is busy. Mine took about a week as it had to be reduced in height and width, that of 2./FAGr 5 the black wound badge was presented to me by forum members due to a stupid accident I got involved in at work, and my ribs still haven't healed up yet !, another 6 months. today I do honey-doo lists so I'll check the thread you mentioned later.

E