So what do you think was the best sub-machine gun of WWII? Choose from the list:

MP38 (and all its models)
Thompson
M3 (grease gun)
Sten gun
PPsh41 (and its later models)
Mauser R713
Type 100
Beretta 38/42
MP28
Erma EMP
Madsen model 50
Suomi model 1931
ZK383
S100

I think that is about all of them. Let me know if I forgot any? Let me know what you think, and then I will give you my choices!

Matt

I would choose the Thompson because of the caliber used and its durability

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

MP 40, though the Thompson is right up there with it......

E

First off, I haven't fired a single one of them and I've only held three of them so far.

And yet - my vote goes to the MP40. It's largest drawback - a small magazine - was solved in the 40/1 version.

Based on the report of a friend who HAS fired it, it fires quite softly, making it possible to engage targets at considerable distance on full auto.

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„Solange man nicht mit dem Kopf unterm Arm rumläuft geht es doch noch!" Erwin Rommel

Are we considering the later war assault rifles/sub-mg's in this thread ?

E

I would have to say give the Thompson two points and one to MP-40.

I like enormous 0.45' caliber instead than 9 mm. But the Schmeisser was easier and chepaer to produce. But also the Tommy had to be very well mantained. All the delicate parts and wooden parts were not the best for mud and sand. That is very well shown in "Saving Private Ryan" when Tom Hanks has his Tommy inside a bag, water and sand proof...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

As much as I hate to admit to not picking a German or an American weapon as the best SMG--I have to say that according to German vets I have talked to, they liked the Russian PPsh the best. You just could not go worng with it.

Now if you are talkig of my favorite SMGs--they you know it would be a tie between the MP-38/40 and the Thompson .45.

I would put Assault Rifles in a different catagory. My fav of those would be the MP-43/STG-44.--then (when it came out) the AK -47.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl :

I think the Ak 47 is a piece of junk, as I have fired several ; maybe becuase they were Chinese re-fits possibly ?
Well I thought I would ask about the Stg 44 as it is a supre weapon. Was the MP 40 with dual feeds ever given to front line troops or was this experimental ?

E

Don't know about that but I do know many a vietnam vet that would disagree with your opinion on the AK 47

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Hmmmmmm, well I can say from firing one as well as having a brother in law that was there in the late 60's..Vietnma war plus a Helicopter pilot friend who got shot down behind enemy lines and procurred two of them, their opinion as well was and is the same as mine. It may be the manufacturing process as this wepaon is distributed all over the world in many varying forms.

E

I'm afraid my knowledge in this are is way too limited to hold a credible opinion, although I am quite fond of the mp40.

I have never even layed eyes on an AK, (I live in Canada), but I have seen most WW2 weapons, at least in museums.

I have never seen a photo of the mp40/II can anyone help me out with this?

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Otto :

Wish I had a scanner becuase I would send you a ton of stuff. My scanner friend works for Allied intelignece and he is overseas right now during the mid-east crisis.....

Maybe Andreas can send you a pic of the MP 40 ?
In essence it is a dual clipped gun, with the clips side by side which count pump out tremendous firepower... !

E

Thanks Erich, I have read a ton about this variant, but I would love to put a picture to the words.

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No, I disagree.

I have fired Soviet-manufactured AK-47 and let me tell you that Mr. Mikhaíl Kalashnikov is a genious! The gun is beautiful, simple and lethal.

The thing is going to fire after you had it in mud during four years...

Vietnam veterans say that (OK, not all...), but it is the best Assualt rifle in History because it is still an incredible weapon at its 50 years of age. Not even the most modern M-16 reachs the quality of the Kalashnikov. Beside, the rifle has History, it is a symbol of revolution and freedom. I would love my grandfather to give me his Kalashnikov some day. He once said: "Thank God the Soviets invented it after the war, because our Sturmgewehr woud be junk if we compared it..."

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Remember though that I mentioned Chinese made AK's.......also even though it appears opinion here suggests that the Russian weapon is hot stuff, what then would have happened if the Third Reich would have continued into the late 40's.....something superior to the AK possibly ?

E

Of course we would have invented something better. We always do, don't we? Hehe...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Friedrich :

My understanding is that the German technicians were working on a double barrel sub-mg to be produced sometime in 1946 for use with the Heer and the W-SS. Whoa !

E

I thought I read somewhere or watched it on the History Channel that the AK 47 was derived from the MP44 or whatever it was called. The Germans came out with a replacement to the MP 40. They wanted something that could fire high rate of fire but also be accurate at long ranges. Something in between a SMG and a rifle. They came up with the MP 44 (name could be wrong). Looking at the AK47, it does have similarities to the German weapon so in effect, it was a German invention. Russkies just copied it.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Yes, my thoughts as well or so I have understood the last 35 years. Any experts to give us the findings ?

E

http://www.izhmash.udm.ru/parade/kalashnikov.html

(or http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/)

A little about kalashinkov in his own words. I think that if he would have ripped off a German gun, he would not say so. The man is a hero of the USSR. As I understand it the gun was very succesful and good, but as has been mentioned before, it was build in lincense in MANY countries and I am sure the quality differs consistently between the original ones and the later versions (although updated). I have never fired one.

In the Dutch Army we have the C5 Dimaco (Canadian copy of the Colt M16). Was rather dissappointed with it. My instructor told us that unless we would hit some vital organs, the enemy would propably keep on running at us...with his gun...

Same with the standard issue Glock17. Same guy said; If you stand within 25 meters of your target, by all means, THROW the gun at his head. You got more chance of hitting him....

But I am going off topic here.

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

I would choose the PPSH as number 1 and the Owen as number 2
The Thompson was heavy and very expensive to manufacture, but very popular with the troops
The MP 38/40 had a very poor saftey but otherwise was fairly trouble free
The Sten was widely despised as being cheaply manufactured, and unreliable, in reality it was its magazine that was faulty, if that had been adressed the weapon would have been much more popular

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

Beretta 42 was also a nice toy! Beretta has always distinguished itself for its quality. If not, ask USA's armed forces why are they using it instead of a national pistol.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun