Seems to be some confusion as to whether it was worthwhile.

John Weeks ('World WarII Small Arms) calls it 'a success story - the most popular weapon on the Allied side..'. On the other hand, Ian V. Hogg ( 'Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons' ) says 'accuracy . . far from satisfactory.. deficient in stopping power'. Then, Captain C Shore in 'With British Snipers to the Reich' calls it 'astounding at 200 yards...the finest weapon I have ever handled'. Admittedly, he was an expert shot.
One or two of these weapons went to Arnhem with British troops and were the object of great envy.
I'm sure some forum contributors have,or still do use an M1 - what do you think ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Martin, forgive my ignorance but I am a little confussed. Doo you mean the "Garand" or the shorter version which was used by rear staff?

If it is the Garand it was a heavy, unnacurate but very fast rifle. It had an advantage over bolt-action-rifles.

If was the carabine it was a very lack weapon. In Corea, where North Corean and Chinesse soldiers had thick clothes, the carabine could not pirce that some times...

Or am I a prick and that is the very same rifle?

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Hi Friedrich
It's the lightweight Carbine, not the Garand M1 rifle. They used the same rotating-bolt action. There seems to be overall agreement for the Garand M1's virtues - not so the Carbine.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Vielen Dank, Martin! I knew they were different things! I am not such a prick anyway...! He he! Well, who understands Americans? They name two different guns with the same name...

Yes, they used the same mechanism, repeating fire action which made both, the Garand and the Carabine fast weapons. But they were not accurate enough. And if we think about a smaller caliber, then it means shorter range and power... I think it was not a very fine weapon to use at the front. That's why they used them on rear operation where there was no combat and where lighter and smaller weapons were needed. Or at least, that is what I had heard on History bloody Channel!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Agreed, that's how it looks on paper.
But some first-hand accounts say that in the right hands ( ie well-trained ) it was very accurate indeed up to 250 yards, helped by superb ergonomics and light recoil. One account (Ryan?) cites an M1 Carbine in use very effectively at Arnhem bridge. OK, it's 'only' 250 yards but NW Europe combat was often a close ranges.
Come on, fellas - anyone used one ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

No, I have not. But I have fired the Garand and I would say that it is too heavy and unaccurate for me. And I do not like the power of the cartridge. A Colt 0.45 is more powerfull... at short distances of course. I still like more my K-98.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

The Garand was far from an "unaccurate" rifle

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

According to who?

At least explain why, my friend.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I had a "tanker" Garand (Which was a ww2 Garand with its barrel shortened for tank crews during the Korean War) and neved had problems with accuracy when hitting my targets. The Garand is considered the PPSH of rifles the Colt .45 of pistols and the MP43-STG-44 of Assault Rifles. The Garand outclasses the 98-K because of magazine capacity, because the 98 is bolt-action as the Garand wasnt, was quicker to load and had a bigger magazine capacity--8 rounds versus 5 rounds.

Dont get me wrong--I LOVE my Mauser for the excellent rifle that it is, but the Garand would win hands down in a fair fight.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Yes, Carl. We had already discussed both rifles advantages in Mauser vs. Garand which I posted in War in Russia topics, why? Don't know. Remember?

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Me? Remember??, I cant remember what I did yesaterday because of being so busy.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I have fired the M1 carbine, and I can say that it is very accurate up to 150 yards. After that it is somewhat sloppy. The main problem with the M1 carbine is not its' accuracy, it was its' stopping power (or lack there of!) I have spoken to vets of both WWII, Korea, and Vietnam who all used the M1 carbine in combat. One vet from Korea said that in order to drop a gook with an M1 carbine you had to be closer than 30 yards from him! You would be better off just using your 1911 at that range! At least it will drop em!

Matt

That's more like it . . . thanks MP38!

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

One virtue of the M1 Carbine was the fact it was extremely well balanced. I was fortunate to handle a museum-exhibit M1 and the point of balance made the weapon extremely wieldy, even more so with the folding M1A1 Paratrooper stock.

Oh... the 1911 can stop anything with that huge bullet. It stopped a Tiger in "Saving Private Ryan"...

Carl, do you know what Alzheimer is?

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Did the carbine fire rifle cartriges or pistol cartriges? yeah i never heard the garande being inaccurate? I just heard praise on all aspects!? As for the Carbine...stopping power was the main thing i heard complaints about.
Frankly i always thought the carbine looked like a BB gun heh

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Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill

Hi Ron
That's part of the 'controversy' surrounding this gun - the cartridge is a funny little thing that isn't either a rifle or pistol cartridge but somewhere in between - without being anywhere near as powerful or effective as, say, the 7.92mm 'kurz' from the MP44. I don't actually know if the .30 carbine cartridge was used in any other weapon ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Hello Friedrich--yep--its the German word for Carl Evans

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Yes Martin it was used in a few other weapons, the Cristobal carbine springs to mind

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

Fredrich are you sure when you say the M1 was inaccurate you arent refering to the M1 Carbine, not the M1 Rifle?

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

Sorry, Greenjacket, I nearly missed your post from 27/6.

You're dead right. I have a deact '44-dated M1 Carbine in my collection and for pure 'feel' it's the nicest WWII smallarm I've ever held. Almost like a sporting air-rifle !
And it was this fabulous 'handiness', together with low recoil from the weedy cartridge, which reportedly made it such an accurate close-in weapon - in the right hands.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

OK, gentlemen, my mistake.

I was very curious about this topic, so this weekend I asked my grandfather if he would let me fire his M1s, the Carabine and the rifle. He gladly accepted and he, my best friend and I shot the weapons.

I must take all my points where I say the Garand is unacurate back, because it is not. It stills being heavy and I do not like it too much. But it is a nice weapon. And I loved the 8 shots so quickly! I fired them all in 6 seconds! He he! But yeah... I think the carabine's bullets are too weak and low caliber...

What a nice weekend!

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun