Any opinions?

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Medium...JU 88 or Arado 234.

[ 24 July 2002, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: dasreich ]

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"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

What a good question. What is considered a medium bomber? Do the Ju88, deHavilland Mosquito and the B24 fall under that? If so, I would have to go with the Ju88 or Mosquito. Can't decide which is better. They equally did very well but the Ju88 could also be used as a dive bomber or night figher.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

I don't think the Mosquito was a medium bomber. A light one, perhaps. And the B-24 is definately a heavy one.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Then the Ju88 wins!

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

I agree, Ju 88 as the best medium bomber.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

This is a tough one! I have it narrowed down to 3 main choices.

1. The Junkers model 88 or Ju88
2. The B-25 Mitchel
3. The A-26 Havoc

I guess it depends on what your mission is. The Ju88 is probably the most versitile, since it can be a horizontal bomber, dive bomber, night fighter, torpedo bomber, mistrol bomb, and it carried guided bombs and missles as well!

Both the B25 and A26 were very rugged and reliable. Both of them were fitted with a nose full of cannons and machined guns, and were devistating in the ground attack role! Also they were no easy target for axis fighters!, and did give them a good defensive sting!

Matt

Whenever I think 'Medium Bomber' I immediately think 'B25 Mitchell'. Unglamorous, agreed, but it was a tough old bird and there were lots of them in virtually every theatre.

Certainly NOT the best- but I'll throw in an honourable mention for the B26 Marauder because the crews' exploits over Europe have been almost completely overshadowed by B17 and B24.

[ 25 July 2002, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I totally agree with mp38 and many others about the Ju-88.

Althought I love the He-111, because it was reliable and beautiful. But no marvell...

And the B-25 is the typical though yank aeroplane. Small but strong. Certainly not very beautiful, but how could it be beautiful? It is American...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Sie irren sich

the Moskito hand down ! nothing could touch it except the Me 262A-1a, and the mossie could carry a heavier bomb load than the B-17.

E

The JU 88 cannot be considered a medium bomber, as it was not designed to be one. The problem was that German bomber design thinking and planning was faulty. The Junkers and Heinkel were considered and designed to be strategic bombers, however their bomb load was too small, they had inadequete defensive armament, and too few motors, and their range was too short. Basically they were obselete heavy bombers by 1940.

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

The Flying Fortress-it lived up to that name in all respects....

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"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
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"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

Panzerknacker :

Actually the B-17 and the B-24, halifax and the Lancaster were all 4-enigne Heavy bombers, not mediums like the twin engine B-26 Maurader, B-25 Mitchell.......

E

I had a good laugh about the coments on the Mosquito as the best medium bomber! [img]tongue.gif[/img] That thing was made of wood! It certainly could not carry a medium bomb load, much less a heavy bomb load like the B17 you compaired it to! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

The mosquito was mainly a recon plane and night fighter. Although they did use it as a ground attack role as well. It was fast and nimble, but could not take a hit at all! One shot would put down a mosquito. Basically any German fighter, including the German "Mosquito" could shoot it down! I'm not sure where you got your facts from, but they are far from correct

Matt

Bummer dude, My sources are the vets themselves. Made of wood made it light an extrememly fast, read my volumes when they come out and you'll learn something. Interviews with the bomber vets of the LSNF and the night fighter squadropns will be shared at length.

have a good laugh By the way experten the Ta 154 was never operational !

E

Mp you are correct about the amount of tonnage by the Mossie vs the B-17. Apology needed on my part. I woke three vets up living in Canada, all three not well and I got it straightened out. The medium bomber flew as a medium bomber at high altitude dropping incendiaries on Berlin most notably within the ranks of the Light night striking force. We , as mentioned have much info since we are tracing the history of the Moskito-jad, the German air defences against the threat of the wooden wonder. The mossie could do everything, being made of wood meant nothing as many times the german rounds would actually go through the a/c and out the ither side without causing in effect fatal damage. We will have one account where one of our German pilot friends accounts for his downing in March of 45 and LSNF bomber outside of Berlin. He was flying a Me 262A-1a and pumped over 25 minen 3cm rounds into the a/c before it took fire and ripped off it's left wing. Only the navigator who lives in Canada escaped.

E

Everyone uses the B17E's payload as a stick to beat the Fortress with !
For the record, it was 4x1000lb. The B17F improved things considerably with 8x1000lb. The Mosquito was no lightweight with 1x4000lb.
But you're right, the Mosquito was far too valuable and versatile to be wasted as a medium bomber.

Don't agree with the Mosquito being 'easy meat' though. LNSF loss-to-sortie ratio was tiny whereas we've seen under another thread that Mosquito nightfighter can, and did, shoot down Fw190s......

And don't discount wooden construction. The Germans ( including Goebbels and Speer ) felt that they'd 'missed a trick' in that respect. All European countries have plenty of trees and, at that time, a huge furniture industry. In Britain, those skills and resources were put to use to make the Mosquito thus the aircraft did little to detract from other war production.

After all, there was a lot of wood in the Hurricane and that old warhorse shot down a surprising number of Bf109E's in 1940.

[ 28 July 2002, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Well, I understand as a medium bomber a two engine aeroplane which carries 1.000-3.000 kilogrammes of bombs, more less...

But I think the Mosquito, even if it could load a ton of bombs does not qualifies here. We should make a new topic about the best fighter/bomber of the war, and surely the Mosquito will win there.

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

You're right, Friedrich.

The Mosquito was so flexible, maybe I'll post a thread something like : -

'Best Mosquito of WWII ?'

( OK, it's just me being mischievous ! )

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I believe that the Japanese did more R&D into the development of medium bombers than anyone else. The only Axis bomber capable of outrunning Allied fighters was probably the Yokosuka P1Y1 Ginga ("Frances")w/ top speed of 350mph. Nice plane.
Mosquito gets my vote for the Allies.

The Ju88 was designed as a medium bomber as were the others in the German arsenal. They did not embrace strategic bombing like the West so there was no faulty thinking as far as the initial design. It was designed to coordinate with the army in attack. It was faulty when they tried to force it to play big bomber in a strategic role for which it was not designed to play. But, fact is fact and it was a medium bomber used successfully in a variety roles (night fighter, dive bomber, level bomber, transport) It was fast, reliable and sturdy. Hands down, the winner. Though I would even say that the mosquito is very close.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

I totally agree with you, PzJgr!

And now, Martin, thanks! I am still in the floor laughing like a crazy person...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Only a few Ju-88 variants could even approach 3