Well, if the range was short enough, even one of the 37mm guns would probably have a decent effect. And if the range was short enough, say under 15m, the enemy tank would likely have some trouble returning fire. Most tanks guns did not depress too far, and if I remember correctly, the T-34 (and theoretically other russian tanks) was especially problematic here. Thsu an enemy tanks could be handicapped at such short range.

But I do still wonder about the whole idea of lifting the gun then firing it- even a 37mm gun would have been pretty cumbersome and heavy to fire without any support.

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Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Don't forget the rotating front mg though......it all respects I think if I read Kai's story correctly, the whole pak and crew were so well camouflaged that they hit by stealth each and every time so the Soviet tankers had no time to respond.

E

(I wonder if Kai has yet noticed how much we are discussing this! I guess we're still waiting to hear about this source here ... Kai? )

On the front mg- the bow mg on most all tanks had a very limited traverse, and I'd guess the AT team would attack the tank's side, not head on. This would mean that the tanks would be relatively unable to retaliate... unless the crew opened up the hatches...
Which would leave them even more vulnerable.

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Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Very interesting stuff, but Kai, are you there? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I think the key to this would be camouflage. The Finns were totally unseen, as Erich says and if they hit a T-34 or even a KV-1 in a range of let's say 8 metres... even a small anti-tank gun would have made quite damage.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Poor Kai cannot defend himslef yet.....not morning only the middle of the night... it may have depended too of course on the angle of the shot. Was it the flank or rear ? How about the shrapnel blown out and away in the Finn's direction..... ? eeeks !

E

Oh-hoh? That certainly woke you guys up...I really didn´t expect this kind of excitement but nice to see you want to know more!

I don´t have the book here but I´ll be back with the information.I do think that they did not just lift the PAK, they had a couple of wooden strips to use for the PAK wheels and just pushed it up and down. And don´t forget that there are loads of trees and by then snow, so things can get complicated for the enemy, and you can´t see clearly around you. And the usual Russian way of advancing as long as possible makes it a bit easier for AT action, as the soldiers are often shot at the front line and the tank

[img]smile.gif[/img] s let move ahead, and destroyed as possible.

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here´s a site for the AT guns in winter war:

http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinAT/FINantitank.htm

http://www.sci.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/bofors37mm.html

http://www.ankkurinvarsi.net/jaeger/AT_GUNS1.htm

http://www.ankkurinvarsi.net/jaeger/37PstK36_1.jpg

The Bofors 37 PstK/36 seems to have been the only cannon in use in Finland during the Winter War.So this must be the one they were bringing up from the trenches. And like I said they must have had planks for the wheels.

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Nice stuff, Kai...
That does seem a bit more possible- runnign the gun up a ramp really quick and then firing. I wonder though- wouldn't it have worked just as well to give the gun lots of camoflage and dig it in very well? If one digs in an anti-tank gun well enough, only the barrel and the top of the gun shield would be showing...
I like this idea though... but it does seem like it would be limited by the terrain. The Finns probably took full advantage of trees, snow, and other camo.
But at very close range, Friedrich is right- even a 37mm gun would damage the front or rear of a russian tank.
Erich- I don't think there would be too much schrapnel from an armor piercing round- it would just punch a hole in the tank...

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Seriously, all today is missing is free cotton candy and the annual Bay State Hooker Parade to make it any better.

Later on this cannon was transferred to shooting at enemy troops, as the they started to use T-34 and Klims more and more. The 37 would not hurt them.

But at the time it was quite useful, as they did destroy some 2000 tanks by the Russians during the Winter War...This method was probably one of the tricks in the book, as anyway the AT gun was best kept behind a camouflage and when needed brought ahead to shoot the enemy tanks, not to be sighted by the tanks first. Preferably by the defensive side the first thing the tank´s crew saw was the shot of the gun if even that.

Remember that these Russian tanks were not T-34´s. Mostly the kind of stuff Germans met during the first months of Barbarossa.

The nature in Finland is totally different to Central Europe. For instance the SS NORD men were totally lost in the woods.No Blitzkrieg here! And during the Winter War the Russian army men came from Ukraine so it is a bit different here.If you ever have the chance, do visit Lapland.It is great!Unless you wish to attack with tanks..

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Crazy :

Well not familiar with just how close the AT gun was to the lighter Soviet tanks but there had to be some back blast encountered at close range.
Kai, one day I am coming over to your country with my C.C. ski's ! I have heard so much about your beautiful land and would love more exploration, like a 40 mile jaunt through the landscape.
Back on track now......you guys have heard about the configuration of 1/2 Panzerfausts in trees, rigged in such a way that when a T-34 would go between two firs it would snap the trip wire and ......boom ! My friend Helmuth and his small party while in Infantrie regiment 43 in the Ost Preussian forests, would set up mulitple tank traps along the narrow and almost impassable roads through the swamp lands of their homeland. Helmuth remembered so often the characteristic smash/boom of the Panzerfausts hitting the sides of the Soviet tanks, though he always wondered just how many Panzers his little rag-tag unit destroyed. He never once received a tank destruction strip for his tunic as the group was always on the run in 1945 and chaos reigned supreme.

E

Erich, and all of the rest of you.
I do think it´s ok, once we get to know each other that if you come over here that I will give information on places and maybe join your "adventure". Finland is a place to see and enjoy.
here´s some pics to start with:

http://www.hytti.uku.fi/~tpulliai/lappi/2001/10.html

http://www.hytti.uku.fi/~tpulliai/lappi/2001/02.html

http://www.hytti.uku.fi/~tpulliai/lappi/muu.html

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OMG!

I AM SOLD!

From when to when can you see the Northern lights and how far north do you have to go? Always wanted to see the boralis...

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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

Kai :

Thanks so much for sharing these pic/links.
The first one looked like the hills outside my home ! If you recall the earlier posts I had made about the Kalmiopsis wilderness and the massive fires we had which took out 500,000 acres, well your first pic is what it looked like. heavy thick woods. No more though, but they will replant some of it this November/December.
Your second shot .....it isn't fair ! What a beautiful sunset sir !! Gorgeous.
Stevin, grab your skii's or snoshoes and I'll see you over there next winter !!! and what does this have to do with AT weapons ?? well let's think about it for a minute, what was it like during 1941, just like this in the spring and summer except for the death all around and the heavy rumble of weapons firing..... and yet the flowers still bloomed.....

Thanks for the pics, Kai!

I have always found your land very, very beautiful. My dream is to go, do some camping in the forests and dive in a frozen lake... I saw it on TV and it seemed quite fun!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

For commercial purposes only...

We do have 100 000 lakes! We have every man´s rights so it is legal to camp in Lapland and go fishing wherever you want ( for the latter you need to buy a warrant of some 4 Euros from the post office whether Finnish or foreigner ).During summer the sun won´t set for about 3 months in northern Finland.

I do think the best time for northern lights is winter, when the air is clear by the cold,and during the night.For this the Lapland, or nothern Norway is best.The closer to the pole the better..

[img]smile.gif[/img]

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Hallo, Kai!

I think your country is quite beautiful and fascinating... and correct me if I am wrong, but I knew that it is one of the countries with most water in the world!!! Is it true? I think it was Sweden... Anyway, it was the 2nd, the 1st is Canada...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Yes, Friedrich, I do think so. But if some country does have more water than us by chance, we got most lakes in the world anyway! And Santa Claus lives in Finland, Korvatunturi, not in Sweden, like the Swedes like to say...Don´t send your Christmas wishes cards to Sweden as they do not go to the right place!

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Quite nice, Kai.

Thanks for correcting me.

And Carl, if you read this, you know where to send your letter asking for a computer... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Amen !

Newbie bumping up again..

Jumbo bringing up the desert..Great example of anti tank tactics....The defence of outpost Snipe October 1942..2 rifle brigade...A great eample.

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Prepare to repel borders.
William L. McGonagle, MOH, U. S. Navy, Commanding Officer, USS LIBERTY 1967.