Yes, the poor 2-Pounder !
Ian V Hogg in 'British & American Artillery of WWII' states that ; -
'On the day it was formally approved, 1 January 1936, the 2pdr was undoubtedly the best anti-tank gun in the world.Unforunately, by the time it had to earn its' keep, it was no longer capable of dealing with the opposition...'

So definitely not my overall favourite weapon !

But the 17 Pounder, especially in the Sherman 'Firefly' - that was something else.

Going back to 'Archer' - apparently, one slight snag was that the driver had to vacate his seat before the gun could be fired in order to avoid being decapitated by the recoiling breech ( )

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Ahh the much maligned 2-pounder. Certainly better than the PAK 36 and the Russian 45mm. I don't know how it compared to the Bohler 47mm.

I don't think the AT round was any worse than it's contemporaries. Except the Skoda 47mm with it's tungsten round.

Martin, have you seen any pictures of the Alvis-Straussler 17pdr tractor? Was this thing ever used in combat?

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Ouch - you've got me there, Jumbo.
Was it some kind of self-propelled gun, or was it that odd-looking lightweight tractor that went to Arnhem to tow the 17-pdrs ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I think it's the lightweight tractor, but i'm not certain. I have a pic and brief description in BT Whites Armoured Fighting Vehicles but no idea if it was ever used. Looks like a Garden Rotavator pressed into use to tow an AT Gun.

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

Sorry, Jumbo - I've checked and the 17-pdr tractors at Arnhem were specially modified, stripped-down Morris Commercials.
I very dimly recall seeing something like you've described in an old 'Airfix Magazine'....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Still not knowing the exact caliber...

Das reich: [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I've hunted everywhere to find it - the calibre of the 17-pounder Anti-tank gun was 77mm.

( Someone is sure to tell me I'm wrong... )

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Thanks a lot, Martin! [img]smile.gif[/img]

But the 25 pounders was...?

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

The 25 Pounder ( measured from a shellcase in my collection ) was 88 ( or maybe 89 ) mm.

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Thanks again, Martin! I will go with 89mm. 88mm sounds like a cheap copy...

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Sorry to have to be specific-but i believe the 25 Pounder was 89.4mm-I think...

__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

NOW you know why we stuck to good old Pounds rather than all this metric rubbish.... ! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

__________________
"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

SMG:THOMPSON M1A1
cheers for now
Kenny

Can we say... for good ?

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Well, I can see what you mean, Martin!

You Brits are too complicated! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Wow, where did Kenny come from???

Okay to help clear up this problem with pounds and calibres, I found this quick guide.

2 pounder = 40mm
6 pounder = 57mm
17 pounder = 76.2mm
25 pounder = 87.6mm

Also,for calibres expressed in inches (Naval and Artillery Guns etc.)

.303 = 7.7mm
.380 = 9mm
2 inches = 50.8mm
3 inches = 76.2mm
4.5 inches = 114.3mm
5.5 inches = 139.7mm
8 inches = 203mm

Hope this helps.

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"If the cavalry were not very valuable in trench warfare, at least they did bring a little social tone to the battlefield" - Morton

"I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God, the terrify me" - The Duke of Wellington, Aug 1810, speaking about his generals.

Martin Bull [/quote] "I`ve hunted everywhere to find it - the calibre of the 17-pounder Anti-tank gun was 77mm."

( Someone is sure to tell me I'm wrong... )



The calibre of the 17 pdr was 76.2mm.
The (so-called) 77mm fitted in the Comet tank was in fact also a 76.2mm(17pdr),but with a cut-down cartridge. To avoid confusion with ammo this gun was called 77mm.
clear as mud

[ 31 August 2002, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: redcoat ]

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

My brain hurts ! I think I'll just stick with 17 Pdr and 25 Pdr !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Martin , I just thought you might like to know that the American 76mm gun fitted on the later Shermans was also 76.2mm, but it had a lower muzzle velocity than the British 17 pdr(76.2mm )

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

Hello Martin its me again
Just in case you are interested, here are some figures for the difference in effectiveness between the 76.2mm guns.
Performance figures were as follows (for conventional AP shot):

77mm: 17 lbs at 2,575 fps, penetrated 110mm at 1,000 yards/60 degrees

17 pdr: 17 lbs at 2,900 fps, 118mm

US 76mm: 15.44 lbs at 2,600 fps, 89mm

figures taken from the book "Fire and Movement" published by the RAC museum
Thanks to Tony Williams [img]smile.gif[/img]

ps the figure for the 17 pdr firing APDS ammo would be approx 210mm (came into service late-summer 1944 )

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

Thanks, Redcoat.
I can see why Eisenhower was disappointed when the Shermans were 'up-gunned' to the 76mm.
Apparently, he'd been led to believe it was a 'wonder-weapon'......

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

A lot of things about the Shermans make me wonder...

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"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

Shermans.....