I would have to say that it was the Yak. Not sure which model though because the Russian number system was messed up. As an example, the Yak3 came after the Yak9. Russian planes were made for taking off of ice and snow and for this reason I think that they were very durable and dependable. Russian planes were not very flashy planes, but were made in very large numbers and this should be taken into consideration when talking about the Russian air war.

Nowadays Russian MiG's kick butt!

[ 03 October 2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Mustang ]

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IL-2 Sturmovik, or the Yak9...

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The IL-2 wasn't really a fighter plane, but I'll have to agree that is was the Russians best aircraft during the war. Just ask the Germans! Who affectionatly referred to is as "Black Death" or "The Flying Tank". Just a tough old bird!

Best fighter plane? Tough one! Yak 3, Yak 9? Don't see much of a difference in them? The Russian fighters main advantage was in shear numbers! So my answer would be what ever plane was produced the most!

Matt

The Il-2 was more of a ground attack tank killer. I have to agree, it really does depend on which Yak was produced in larger numbers. There really wasn't much of a difference between the Yak-3 and Yak-9. The Yak-3 came after the Yak-9 so I'd have to say that the Yak-9 was produced in larger numbers. All Russian planes were made in large numbers though!

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What about the Lavochkins? La-5 and La-7 were very good aircraft, as was the La-9, which was produced just a little too late to see action.

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The Lavochkins were good planes too, but I think that the Yaks were better and had a bigger impact on the war too.

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I would rather go for the Lavochin La-5, the 'Soviet Zero' because it was extremely manouvrable and fast. But I think the Yakovlev Yak-3 was also an awesome machine, some kind of Russian 109, but lighter and simpler. Just if the Soviets would have had more adequate tactics, communication and training-systems for pilots they just would have kicked the Luftwaffe out of the sky very rapidly...

Did you know that nearly 40.000 Ilushyn Il-2 'Stormovik' were built?

Why did they win the war? Don't know...

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They had nice machines in WWII, but bad tactics and pilots.

But nowadays, even if Russia's situation is pretty bad, WOW!!! Now they have the best planes in the world, good tactics and pilots. Have you seen the Sukhoi? Su-27 and Su-33?! WOW!!! Also the latest models of MIGs... As Mustang said: They kick-butt!

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I don´t know if Yak-9 is the best Russian plane but it was certainly recommended in many books as I remember the name mentioned most often.

One site:

http://www.warbirdalley.com/yak9.htm

Indeed, over 40 000 Il-2´s were produced. I think Fw 190 was the second best in WW2 with over 20 000 made?

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Most Russian planes didn't have very heavy artillery or whole lot of ammo. Which is why they aren't really considered when talking about the best fighter plane in WWII. The Yak could do 434 mph. Pretty fast. Ecspecially for a Russian plane.

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You are all over looking some key facts: the La-7, an outgrowth of the La-5FN, had a radial engine, so it'll accelerate faster @ lower altitudes(where they fought) and had 3 cannons, out gunning it's contemporaries. Although a late entry, Ivan Kozebube scored his 62 kills in the La-7. The YaK, although sleeker, needed more maintenance due to the Klimov V-12, radials are easier to work on, and less suseptible to damage. And although the P-51 was great, the F6F Hellcat had the highest kill to loss ratio.

Sorry guys but there wasn't one !

Their bombers sucked too ! the only decent a/c the Soviets possessed was the Il-2 and only by taking many hits was it even a valuable resource to the arsenal.

E

I don't know much about russian fighter but the pictures and accounts of the Il-2 'tank-buster' has always impressed me.

regards

Im with Erich, their a/c sucked. They were completely outmatched by the Luftwaffe. I doubt that there ever was a time where they had 'local superiority' when there were any German air units present. They only acheived strategic air superiority by shher weight of massed numbers.

CvM

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I'm sorry too, but that is completely wrong! [img]smile.gif[/img]

The Reds were simply geared towards fighting at lower altitudes, where they could generally outfight the Luftwaffe. The opposite was true at higher altitudes.

Already in 1943 the Red Air Force attained a fighter that was the equal of the Fw-190, namely the Lavochkin La-5FN. This later evolved into the La-7, in which Ivan Kozhedub scored many of his victories to become the top Allied ace of the war.

The Yak series also stands out. In fact, the Luftwaffe only once (as far as I'm aware) ordered their pilots to avoid engaging a aircraft model. This honor falls on the Yak-3 fighter, which is also famous for a '44 incident where 15 Yaks knocked down 16 Bf-109 and Fw-190 fighters for the loss of a single aircraft. The Yak-9 and Yak-3 fighters could outfly pretty much anything at the lower altitudes where they tended to fight, given a decent pilot.

Moving over to bombers, the Petlyakov Pe-2 is one of the outstanding two-engined bombers of the war, having a service record remarkably similar to the Mosquito. It served in bomber, recce, fighter, night-fighter, close support and maritime strike roles throughout the war. On the Leningrad front, British pilots reported staying at maximum throttle to keep up with it on escort missions, and the Bf-109E also had a hard time catching it.

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Oh please ! Heartland you just said it all ! A mid range altitude a/c the Soviets had and were pounced on repeatedly because they did not have a height advantage. Carlv. M brought up the most important point and that in 1945 the soviet had sheer numbers and that was it. There were brave aces no doubt as I have a list of Soviet aces somewhere but never in the war as everyone is led to beleive the Soviets ever had air superiority, not even over Berlin in 1 to 1 combat. The Luftwaffe combat a/c and pilots were stil the best over the Ost front.

E

The VVS and Luftwaffe on the Ostfront were tactical air forces. Their primary purpose was to support the ground troops.

The Soviet and German fighters fought at low level because that was where their tactical aircraft were. If the Germans flew too high the Soviet tactical aircraft like the Il-2 would do as they pleased with the German vehicles down below, and their own tactical aircraft would be unprotected.

Also, if you're at 25,000 feet and an enemy formation is flying in the opposite direction at 5,000 feet, it's easy to miss it and fly right over it.

The Germans were short of fighters on the Eastern Front, and most of their missions were in small formations, staffel or even schwarme strength. The Soviets did the same until they had so many planes they could fly in huge gaggles.

By 1944 most of the German fighters were defending the Reich, and the few left on the Ostfront generally did well considering their numbers, but usually failed to influence the course of the fighting on the ground, which was why they were there.

So I think the Russians had the right fighter designs for local conditions, i.e. superb at low level, although the Germans did very well with the 109 and 190.

Hmmmmm that is an interesting thought u placed.

Can't say if I agree totally with the observation to protect ground troops as many of the Ost front German aces I have interviewed have great egos ! They have told me the prime directive was to shoot down Soviet a/c whether meeting them at high to medium altitudes all the way down to the deck, such as the Il-2's. Actually all of Jg 52 was on the Ost front and most of JG's 51 and 54. JG 51 had a special (14).Jabo./JG 51 staffel with friend Horst Petzschler being quite proficient in this role as well as fighter vs fighter combat.
In January 1945 3/4r's of the Reich defence units were placed on the ost front for the final battles of Berlin and flying at whatever altitudes.

E

It seems this was the best Russian pilot I think...found it on my trip to the net..Ivan the terrible..??

"Entitled Ivan the Terrible, Ivan Kozhedub, with 62 aerial victories, was the top scoring Allied fighter pilot of WW II. Ivan was assigned to the front in 1943 in time for the Great Battle of Kursk. He was assigned to one of the first units to fly the new Lavochkin La-5 fighters. In July of 1943 Ivan notched his first victory, a Junkers-87. By the end of the Battle of Kursk, Kozhedub had been promoted to Eskadrill Commander, and had been awarded the Order of the Red Banner. In 1944 Ivan was assigned to a crack unit of the 176th Guards IAP. This unit was moved from place to place where they could do the most good, and as a result Kozhedub saw plenty of action. Ivan attained 45 confirmed victories while piloting the La-5, and then 17 additional ones while piloting the La-7, including one over an Me-262 Swallow jet fighter. His last two victories (long-nosed Fw-190s) came near war's end over Berlin. Kozhedub was awarded three Hero of the Soviet Union awards and the Order of Lenin."

http://www.littleairplanefactory.com...craft/ivan.htm



[ 18. November 2002, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Kai-Petri ]

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I agree whit Friedrich H rusians are in planes number one! I am enthusiastic when i see pictures like this[img] http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/s37.jpg[/img] or this [img] http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/i42-001.jpg[/img] Sorry becouse this is not a ww2 thing

I agree whit Friedrich H rusians are in planes number one! I am enthusiastic when i see pictures like this[img] http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/s37.jpg [/img] or this [img] http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/i42-001.jpg [/img] Sorry becouse this is not a ww2 thing

Of course the Russians were making rocket fighters as well..Interesting!



In 1939-1940 the USSR accelerated design work on rocket-powered short-range fighter aircraft. The three most prominent works in this direction were the Tikhonravov "302", Polikarpov's "Malyutka", and Bereznyak-Isayev BI. All three designs were powered by very similar duel-fuel (kerosene - nitric acid) developing between 1100 and 1200 kgf of sustained thrust. It is known that all three rocket fighter designs underwent test flights in 1942-1943, but only the BI project have seen further development.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/bi/history.htm

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