All right its' time for fighter planes of the begining of the war! I'm going to make this very clear now. Any Fighter plane in service belonging to a nation "at war" in September 1939.
Now pick which plane you wish to fly to victory, or death!

Matt

Supermarine Spitfire MK I

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I agree. The Spitfire Mk.1.

Does the P-40 count? If it does then that would be my favorite...

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I vote: Bf109E-3 for best fighter in September 1939.

Spitfire MkI in September 1939 still had a wooden two-bladed constant-speed propeller (which is inefficient in combat), 87 octane fuel, no fuel injection, but float type carbarettor (so engine cuts out when you push the nose down hard), and no armour for the pilot or engine.

All these faults except for fuel injection were corrected by June 1940 (the American-supplied 100 octane fuel alone gave the Spitfire a noticable boost in performance), but in September 1939 the Spitfire MkI was less combat worthy than the Bf109E.

Bf109E-3 had three-blade variable speed prop, fuel injection and 2x20mm MG-FF cannon, a heavier armament than the Spitfire Mk1's 8 x .303" mgs. In September 1939 the E-3 still lacked armour, but so did nearly every other fighter.

[ 15 October 2002, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: vonManstein39 ]

Those are some nice stats, but the Spitfire did kick the Me.109's butt in the Battle of Britian!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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Mustang, may I point out that the Battle of Britain didn't start until July 1940. That's ten months, yes, almost a whole year, after the outbreak of war in September 1939.

This thread is about the best fighter of September 1939.

And the Spitfire didn't really kick the Me109's butt in the Battle of Britain. The 109's shot down more British fighters (Spitfires and Hurricanes) than they shot down 109's. The Spitfire, and the Hurricane, kicked the butt of every OTHER TYPE of German plane in the Battle of Britain, and the 109's weren't numerous enough or, more critically, long-ranged enough, to prevent it. It was the German bombers that got slaughtered, not the 109's.

The British had more Spitfires and Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain than the Germans had 109's.

For 1939, definitely the Me109E-3.

The Spitfire Mk1 was just not in the same league in '39, but a year later.....that's a harder choice.

Heart says Spitfire Mk 1, head says Bf109E !

I hate to say it, but the Bf109E gets my vote for the reasons given by vonManstein39.

And no, I'm not going to get into the Battle of Britain again...... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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How about the Heinkel 100? That was a fast fighter.

regards

Ah the He 100, alias He 113 day and night fighter......pure propaganda ! Never flew combat ops.

E

... and large numbers of RAF pilots claimed it as a 'kill' during the Battle of Britain. A mythical beast, indeed...

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Isn't it possible that a heinkel 100 flew on the eastern front under the red airforce later on?

And by the way, we have a plastic kit of a 1/72 heinkel 100 at home.

regards

[img]redface.gif[/img] I am SO embarassed. I know when I wrote that down it was going to kick me in the butt. I agree with Martin. Heart says the Spit, head says the Me.109!

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It's difficult to choose between the Me109 and the Spitfire, but I would go for the Spitfire.

It was mucht faster and better equiped.

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I too love the Me109! Yes the 109 did shoot down more British fighters than the Brits shot down 109s. The Battle of Britain historically is distorted in facts. The Brits claim that they were outnumbered by 600-2,700. What they failed to tell you was that the 600 planes they had were all fighters (spitfires and Hurricanes.) the 2,700 German planes were He111, Do17, Ju88, Ju87, Me110, and Me109. The actual number of German fighters was around 600 which is what the Brits had! About half of those were the slow Me110. So actually the Me109 was outnumbered by British fighters during the battle. Yet its' kill ratio was better in fighter vs. fighter combat!

I am surprised that nobody picked my first choice though. It was a fighter that totally dominated the Pacific from 1937-1942! Yes that is right! I pick the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" figher! This plane not only had the speed and fire power to match the Spitfire or Me109, but it could literaly turn inside a Me109 or spitfire! It was a nasty shock to the Americans, and dominated the skies in the Pacific. It quite literally became a household word overnight! Just the name "Zero" would cause fear and panic in the enemy! This plane was a joy to fly, and just plain kicked ass!

Matt

I did say I wouldn't get dragged into the Battle of Britain again.. but, chocks away !

As the Battle opened, the Luftwaffe had on strength 1107 single-engined fighters, 80% of which were moved to the Pas de Calais. Allowing Osterkamp's 75% servicability rate, that's 664.
Plus 357 two-seat fighters, plus 1,380 medium bombers and 428 dive-bombers.

All of which ( 2829 aircraft ) the RAF's 754 single-engined fighters( of which 72% or 546 were serviceable ) had to defend England against.

Sources : Luftwaffe Quartermaster 6 Abteilung 29/6/40, RAF OOB 1/7/40, cited in Bungay, 'The Most Dangerous Enemy' 2000.

I've said it before and I'll probably have to say it again : in 1940 Nazi Germany swept all before it until it's forces reached the Channel.

And then , from whichever angle you look at it, the RAF proved to the world that the German military machine was not invincible.

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Me-109E for sure! Wasn't it the fastest plane in the world at the time? Actually, in similar conditions it performed better than the Spitfire Mk I, but it depended on the pilot.

But the Me-110 [img]tongue.gif[/img] performed very good against French not so old aircraft, I think.

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I'm changing my vote!

The Zero for sure! I had totally forgotten about it. It would ANNIHALTE anything in it's path all the way up to when the Hellcat came. Then the Zero turned into "5 minutes ago." That's the reason I think that the Hellcat was the best American Carrier based fighter plane. But we're talking about 1939, so the Zero rules all! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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For once I agree with you Mustang! The Zero dominated everything in 1939! I would have really liked to see it up against a Spitfire, or Me109. That would be quite a battle!

I did read about several Japanes aces (and even met one when I was in Okinawa!). One Japanes ace had over 100 kills. All of them were in the Zero, and 62 of them were Corsairs! That is impressive!
I just ordered a new book on "Aces of the Rising Sun". It should be here soon. I should be able to find this guy in it!

Matt

I knew about Japan's top ace having some 85 victories or so and that he is still alive, but I may be wrong... It is very possible that I am wrong...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I forgot to tell that I DID think about the Zero but I was immediately atracted by the 109s speed and because this forum is in an 90% European WWII Forums... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

P-51D...oh yeah...

In that case, the Zero is my choice, with the BF-109 in second.

Does anyone know what kind of French fighters were in service in 1939?

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Interested on that Japanes zero ace:

Japan's ace-of-aces, Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, was tall and lanky for a Japanese, nearly five feet eight inches in height. He had a gaunt look about him; he weighed only 140 pounds, and his ribs protruded sharply through his skin." Although Nishizawa was accomplished in both judo and sumo, Sakai noted that his comrade "suffered almost constantly from malaria and tropical skin disease. He was pale most of the time."

Nishizawa underwent a remarkable metamorphosis in the cockpit of his Mitsubishi A6M Zero fighter. "To all who flew with him," wrote Sakai, "he became 'the Devil'....Never have I seen a man with a fighter plane do what Nishizawa would do with his Zero.

The Japanese did not encourage the tallying of individual scores, being more inclined toward honoring a team effort by units. As with the French and Italians, Japanese victories were officially counted for the air group, not for individuals. Generally, attempts to verify personal claims by Japanese airmen can only be conducted from postwar examinations of their letters and diaries, or those of their comrades.

Nishizawa and his escorts claimed two of the Americans, bringing his personal score up to 87.

Nishizawa and several other pilots left Mabalacat that morning aboard a bomber to pick up some replacement Zeros at Clark Field on Luzon. Over Calapan on Mindoro Island, the bomber transport was attacked by two Hellcats of VF-14 from the carrier Wasp and was shot down in flames
( October 26th 1944 ). Nishizawa, who had believed that he could never be shot down in aerial combat, died a helpless passenger--probably the victim of Lt. j.g. Harold P. Newell, who was credited with a "Helen" (Allied code name for the Nakajima Ki.49 Donryu army bomber) northeast of Mindoro that morning.

Because of the confusion toward the end of the war, the publication of the bulletin was delayed and funeral services for Japan's greatest fighter pilot were not held until December 2, 1947. Nishizawa was also given the posthumous name Bukai-in Kohan Giko Kyoshi, a Zen Buddhist phrase that translates: "In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person."

http://usfighter.tripod.com/hiroyoshi_nishizawa2.htm

[img]smile.gif[/img]

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