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Weapons in WWII Discussion about the weapons and war machines created during World War Two

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Old February 24th, 2003, 04:34 PM
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The Big Guns At Dover World War Two

http://www.doverpages.co.uk/bguns.htm

Winnie - Pooh - Clem - Jane - Gladiator - Sceneshifter - Piecemaker


After the Battle of Britain had abated the bombing of the South Coast began the Luftwafe making bombing raids on Dover and it's harbour night and day. They not only crossed directly over from France, they also made sweeping raids along the coast bombing and hitting Dover with cannon fire, they also targeted Air fields such as Hawkinge, Manston and Biggin Hill. The Luftwafe crossed the channel with as many as 300 planes in formation the sky was blackened by Luftwafe bombers and the town of Dover would go dark.

As the bombing continued a new threat came from the French coast towards the end of 1940 the German Army started installing their huge guns on the French coast that could fire shells across the channel, the first was the 38cm gun at SIEGFRIED BATTERY just south of Cape-Gris-Nez, followed by Three 30.5 cm guns at FRIED AUGUST BATTERY north of Boulogne, Four 28 cm guns at GROSSER KURFURST at Cape-Gris-Nez, Two 21 cm guns at PRINZ HEINRICH BATTERY just outside Calais, Two 21 cm guns at OLDENBURG BATTERY in Calais, Three 40.6 cm guns at LINDEMANN BATTERY between Calais and Cap-Blanc-Nez, Four 38 cm guns at TODT BATTERY outside Cap-Gris-Nez. These guns were later backed up by three K5 railway mounted guns which were also capable of firing shells not only across the channel but also at allied shipping in the channel At this time the British had little answer to this formidable fire power, a worried Winston Churchill came to Dover to see the situation for himself, he had already ordered the high ground either side of the port of Dover to be heavily fortified with large caliber guns. The only answer this British had to these guns at this time were the Royal Marine Siege Regiment at St Margaret's Bay where they had two 14 inch guns nick named 'Winnie & Pooh' they had been fitted with 18 in turrets to increase the operating room.

These guns were ineffective and slow and could never match the formidable firepower of the German guns. Winnie was the first gun to fire a shell that landed on main land Europe in August 1940, Winnie was joined later in the year by Pooh together they were used to bombard the long range guns on the French coast. These guns were manned by twenty five men of various ranks, there was also a separately manned firing control room, they were protected against Luftwafe low flying air attack by 'Pom-Pom' and 'Ack Ack' anti aircraft crews. Behind the guns were the shell and cordite magazines protected by layers of earth and heavily camouflage, each gun had a railway line running to it for delivery of the shells and cordite.

Winnie and Pooh could not fire on German shipping in the channel as they were to slow and inaccurate, whilst the German K5 railway mounted guns were firing on British shipping in the channel with some degree of accuracy. Winston Churchill was incensed by this situation and ordered the building of new heavy gun batteries in Dover to stop German shipping moving up and down the English channel so freely. Three 6 in guns with a range of 25,000 yards were installed at Fan Bay Battery, Four 9.2 in guns with a range of 31,000 yards at South Foreland Battery, Two 15 in guns with a range of 42,000 yards at Wanstone Battery.


In addition to these guns three railway 13.5 guns were added these were named Gladiator, Sceneshifter, and Piecemaker they were relics of WW1, the first of these to be used was Sceneshifter, when not in use it was hidden from the Luftwafe in Guston railway tunnel hauled there by the Royal Engineers using diesel locomotives.
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Old February 24th, 2003, 05:11 PM
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If anyone's interested to find out more about these guns I'd recommend After The Battle number 29 ( 'The Cross-Channel Guns' ).

The whole issue is devoted to the guns on both sides of the Channel with, as usual, plenty of 'then & now' photos. ( Although sadly, since it was published, many vestiges of the German gun emplacements have vanished benath the Channel Tunnel excavations )
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Old April 20th, 2005, 06:28 AM
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The big guns of Dover...
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Old April 20th, 2005, 06:34 AM
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The Channel guns which I would have liked to see in action were the ex-naval 8 inch. These were built with very high-angle mountings (the RN had some idea of using their heavy cruisers for AA fire!) and they were actually used to engage V-1 missiles in 1944.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: Big Guns At Dover

I was watching "Two men in a Trench" and they did a documentary on this so seeing that it is an old thread I thought I would bump it up for any of the newer members

I found this very interesting and amazing, were they ever really effective, I mean other than in the counter battery role?

Did they ever use these guns during the Invasion of Normandy, at Pas De Calias, as one of there many diversions?
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Old May 17th, 2008, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Big Guns At Dover

i wonder if these guns were manned,during the channel dash of the scharnhorst and gniesnau.lee.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Big Guns At Dover

My understanding is that they were manned but the German ships weren't detected until they were already running past the guns. I seam to recall reading that they got a few (less than a dozen ?) shots off but didn't hit any of the German ships. I think the Axis history forum (probably in one of the Sea Lion threads) had some very detailed into on these guns and their activities as well as links.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 12:46 PM
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Question Re: Big Guns At Dover

I noticed, on TV.com, there wasn't a DVD option for "Two Men in a Trench." I wonder, does anyone know if this show still air? I may have to find someone with DirectTv and BBC. I'm always amazed by stories such as this. Nothing like scrounging for defensive measures, eh?

I find it interesting that the guns are named. Do you suppose this is still practiced today?
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Old May 18th, 2008, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: Big Guns At Dover

Today the guns arn't still manned, the gun pits were all filled in and the guns were scrapped after the war. The documentary I watched was about these guys digging up the the old sites and trying to find where these guns were.

The 14" navy gun "winnie" was not that capable at firing at ships in the channel, it was designed in a counter battery fire role against the German Batteries in France. the allied guns were old ww1 navy pieces that were to slow and inaccurate to hit shipping.
That is why Winston Churchill created the other railguns and navy pieces mentioned in the original thread.

Quote:
Winston Churchill was incensed by this situation and ordered the building of new heavy gun batteries in Dover to stop German shipping moving up and down the English channel so freely. Three 6 in guns with a range of 25,000 yards were installed at Fan Bay Battery, Four 9.2 in guns with a range of 31,000 yards at South Foreland Battery, Two 15 in guns with a range of 42,000 yards at Wanstone Battery.
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