Hallo, guys!

I need to know if Waffen SS divisions had horse-pulled artillery among its artillery forces. I have a friend who is building a model of a 105mm Howitzer horse-pulled and he needs to know it as soons as possible since he's joining a model competition.

To be more specific: We have a horse-pulled 105mm Howitzer, 1943-1944, divisions SS Totenkopf, SS Wiking or SS Hitlerjügend (any other of the famous ones will do). Is it possible? or all of them had self-propelled guns? (I don't think so but I want to be sure, I couldn't find it in my books).

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

*bump*

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I was hoping that someone more expert would come to the rescue here, Friedrich ! But I shall start the ball rolling.....

I can't answer for 1943/44, but I have found a reference in Bruce Quarrie's book, 'Weapons Of The Waffen-SS ' ( PSL, 1988 ) stating that on 23 March 1940 Hitler authorized the formation of four heavy artillery battalions for the Waffen-SS, which previously had no such equipment. These were totally motorized, with no reliance at all on horses.The book contains a very good photo of a 10.5cm leFH 18 being towed by a SdKfz 11 half-track.

BUT, I am not sure how this situation may have changed later in the war, when motorized transport was in much shorter supply. We know, for instance, of many thousands of horses being killed in the Falaise pocket.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I would think so. I read somewhere that there were more horses used by German army in WW2 than in the WW1. Anyway, if nothing else then the simple problem of not enough fuel meant that they´d use horses for pulling the guns.



Or how about some elephants...

Elephants from the famous Hamburg Zoo were used for plowing the fields, rather than tractors ...

http://community-2.webtv.net/Hahn-50...9/K9History31/

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I'm sure you're right, Kai - but the strange thing is that I just can't seem to find any good references to Waffen-SS artillery operations in the last years of the war

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Yes,

the Waffen-SS artillery is quite unknown for the last two years. Maybe the book is still unwritten on that one...

Here´s something

The Testimony of Kurt Becher

As a member of staff of the Cavalry and Transport Office, I was seconded in March 1944 (at the time I held the rank of SS Obersturmbannführer) to Budapest to head the staff of the SS Leadership Head Office, with the task of procuring, together with the Wehrmacht and the Hungarian Ministry of War (Honved Ministry), horses and equipment for Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS horse-drawn and mounted units, both new and reinforced.

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Becher arrives in Budapest and he's got a tall order to find 20,000 horses for the SS!

http://www.wssob.com/horse.html

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Thank you very much, gentlemen! I've accomplished that task by concluding that such a horse-pulled gun could have been part of 8. SS Artillerieregiment belonging to 8. SS Kavalleriedivision 'Florian Geyer' during March 1945. I hope my friend and his model win!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Of the 38 designated Waffen SS 'divisions' (many of the higher numbered ones were only such in name) most used horse drawn artillery.
Of the more well known units that used the 10.5cm 18/40 and were horse drawn:
4th SS Polizei Division Artillerie Reg 4
6th SS Gebrigs-Division "Nord" Gebirgs Art Reg 6
Nord fought in Finland and then in the West in 1944 being a lead unit in the Nordwind operation following the Ardennes offensive. It was supported there by the 653rd PzJr Abt(JadgTigers).
7th SS Gebrigs-Division "Prinz Eugen"
Above 12th SS "Hitlerjugend" any that were not termed 'Panzer-Grenadier'could have used such equipment although in many cases Soviet captures or other captured artillery was issued.

8th SS Kavallerie's Artillery Regiment was designated motorizet (motorized). Thought you should know.

I think I am correct in saying that the 12th SS did not use much in the way of horse transport, they used rediculous numbers of captured vehicles by few horses.

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

Sorry for the late contribution but the 12SS specifically did not use horses to transport their artillery. There were other waffen SS units that did. The "Florian Geyer" was one of them as Friedrich pointed out. It was a calvary unit afterall. The Polizei was also one that used horses. The premier SS panzer units were fitted as full mobile units.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

You are correct, 12th SS did not use horse drawn artillery, as I pointed out. Units numbered above that division (13 and up) that were not specifically designated Panzer-Grenadier did.
I would also point out that while 8th SS Kavallerie-Division "Florian Geyer" was a cavalry division its artillery was motorized not horse drawn (see for instance, Uniforms, Orgainzation and, History of the Waffen SS Volume 3 by Bender and Taylor pg 36). By the time this unit was designated a division (late 43) it was becoming common place on the Eastern Front for German cavalry units to be a mix of horsed infantry components with mechanized supporting arms and, strong attached assault gun units. This was because these units were frequently being used as "fire brigades" by the various army groups, being sent to plug Soviet breakthroughs because of their relatively high mobility.