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Weapons in WWII Discussion about the weapons and war machines created during World War Two

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Old November 20th, 2003, 02:46 PM
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I have always wondered whether this weapon ever got past the experimental stage...



Shooting around corners would've offered advantages but for an army surrounded by the allies in 44-45, it would have been limited.

Anyone know any accounts where this was used and how effective it was?
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Old November 20th, 2003, 05:17 PM
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The 'krummerlauf' - always a subject of fascination !

After years of painstaking development work ( in fact, from August, 1941 ) the concept was considered satisfactory for procurement in June 1944. The final weapon considered suitable was the MP43/44 due to the reduced power of the cartridge. Work is also believed to have been carried out on the MP38/40 but no concrete evidence has survived in the form of actual weapons or documentation.

Actually getting the barrels into production together with a suitable sight also proved problematical ( Rheinmetall were granted a contract in late 1944 to produce 20,000 per month ), and it is believed that around 500 units had been produced by and delivered by the end of the war.

Whether they were actually issued and used remains open to conjecture. As far as I'm aware, no photos or reports have ever been discovered.

However, the Allied armies captured several unused examples and the curved-barrel concept caused great interest, especially with the Americans who set up a complete Ordnance Technical Intelligence Team ( OTIT3 ) to evaluate it.

The 90-degree barrel was found to be impractical, the 30-degree slightly less so - main problems being lack of velocity and very high barrel wear. The concept was not pursued further.

The design was originally intended for armoured-vehicle protection, later developments intended to give infantry an additional 'close-in' weapon.

Overall, the project cannot be considered worth the time and resources expended on it. Firing around corners ? Easier and cheaper to use a grenade....
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Old November 20th, 2003, 08:29 PM
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I agree with Martin on the financial aspect. I haven't heard of any of these guns being in use but I don't see why they would need to be. Do to the type of fighting the Allies and Axis powers did, it wouldn't have changed the death toll much.
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Old November 21st, 2003, 12:05 AM
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There is an older thread in Weapons of WWII second page entitled "Odd German Weapons"
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Old November 21st, 2003, 12:09 AM
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Hey Bratwurst- what's that thing on the end of the barrel, some sort of mirror sight or what???
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Old November 21st, 2003, 03:46 AM
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You're right, wilconqr, that is indeed a form of mirror sight.

It is the Vorsatz J prismatic sight, developed by Busch of Rathenow and manufactured by Carl Zeiss, Jena. It looks clumsy, but obviously, it's no use being able to 'shoot around corners' if you can't se what you're aiming at !
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Old November 21st, 2003, 06:06 AM
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Interestingly enough, the 'shooting round corners' concept has just reappeared, in a rather different form. It consists of a Glock pistol attached to a long stock in such a way that it can be swivelled to point 90 degrees to either side of the stock. There is a mechanism to allow the trigger to be pulled from the stock rather than on the gun. The sights consist of a video camera on the gun with a screen mounted on the stock. So the weapon can be poked around a corner, aimed and fired without exposing any part of the firer. Rather more sensible than bending the barrel [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Old November 21st, 2003, 07:18 AM
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Very interesting comments guys! I was going to say while making virtually no difference to the outcome of the war, it would have been good earlier to be used with paratroopers and other special forces or small raiding parties.

Police today use the fiberoptic cameras to peer into rooms (albiet under doors) so such a bendy device would've been great in covert ops for the germans.
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