Hadn't heard this one before ; according to legend, on seeing a Thunderbolt close-up for the first time, a RAF Spitfire pilot commented that if the P-47 was 'bounced' by enemy fighters, if all elese failed the pilot could take evasive action by running around the cockpit.....

http://www.web-birds.com/8th/353/353-11.jpg

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Roomy!! [img]tongue.gif[/img] So was the Thunderbolt originally designed for ground-attack or a fighter?Both? [img]smile.gif[/img]

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The Thunderbolt was originally designed as a lightweight interceptor (?!) but it turned out rather differently.

The last of the line, the P-47N, weighed as much as two fully-loaded Bf109Gs.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

The P-47 was specifically designed as a high altitude interceptor / escort fighter. The design was literally done around the engine and turbo-supercharger system that takes up much of the fuselage.
If you want to see the "ultimate P-47" look up the XP-72. This was a follow-on development that in prototype was making 490 mph and climbed a mile a minute. The production model (5 stage turbo-supercharger vs. the 3 stage P-47 model on the prototypes)was expected to break 500 easily.

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Truth is stranger than bullshit!

Leeeeethal! The lightweight Mustang was also reported to have a rather astonishing speed. 487 mph I once read. the 43-44 vintage 47 had a great roll rate. Bob Johnson, ( America's best ), once vector rolled inside a Spitfires turn. Which could be done against a 109 as well. The Germans 109er's would, if caught with a 47 on their tails, do a straight up loop, & the 47 could not follow. Buligen stated that he shot down several 47's in this way. At high altitude & high speed the 47 could also be competitive in the turn with 109 & 190. I read a bit of a book called The P47 at war. One 47 pilot described his 1st encounter with a D-9. He said; I came upon what I thought was a radial 190, but found that unlike usual, I could not close with it, & was only able to do so on emergency boost. The early D-9 did not have MW 50 boost. The ones that arrived in Dec 44 did. One can't help but wonder if the boosted D-9 could have left the 47 behind. But then upgraded 47's appeared in 45 as I understand. Perhaps someone can enlighten us to the timing of the last version of 47 to fly in Europe.

At least the P-47 was made out of medal and not termite food like some un-named aircraft.

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Talkin bout the 109 K I suspect. The G & K could also hit boost & do a spiral climb & leave a 47 behind. Blakeslee flew a 47, & when the Mustang came along, he couldn't wait to switch as it flew so much better said he. The 47 was a very good plane, but not at same level as Mustang or Spit. & the xp 72 had it arrived in 45 would have been a moot point as the 262 would have ate it.

Chrome would you be interested in Ossi Romm's first hand account flying the Dora against Soviet types in spring of 45 out of Prenzlau ? Will have to check but think he scored at least 4-6 Soviet a/c in the D-9. He was quite impresssed with it as he was able to get 5 for the STab of IV./JG 3 and he claims one whole staffel was outfitted with the type but I am not sure which one.

also Stab./JG 301 with the Ta 152H did fly several missions and encountered 9th AF P-47's. Again will have to hunt this down as JG 301's ops in spring of 45 are very sketchy

E ♪

You know it Bruddah!

I thought Ta was having a pop at the legendary and deeply wonderful Mosquito , and was going to treat his remark with richly-deserved lofty contempt.... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Yah, now that you mention it, the Mossie was mostly wood, Yak 3 too. Parts of the Frank & so on. Nothin wrong with wood when used intelligently. The Yak probably couldn't take much punishement, So again wood is good as long as motor, pilot, & vitals are protected with metal.

Sorry but you appear to have watched too many Hollywood movies where the cops hide behind car doors and they are safe from the bullets.
The ordinary metal skinning on a plane( or a cop car ) is no more effective at stopping a bullet than wood would be.

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Chrome, friend and ace Oskar Bösch flying Fw 190A-8/R8, schwarze 13 smashed head-on into a Jak in April of 45. Oskar bailed out of his striken plane to be captured by the Soviets until his escape two days later. What was left of the Jak ? The engine only, the rest of the a/c was obliterated.

have to say the 3cm for the Luftwaffe was a bit unfair. When mossies of the LNSF were hit by Mine shells of Me 262's the Mossie literally vaporized.......eeeeeeeeeeeeek

Read what I said Redcoat. Yak 3 could not take much punishement. I also said wood used "intelligently" I made no reference to replacing metal skin with wood.

That was the intelligent thing about the Mosquito - everything was replaced with wood !

There was another benefit - wood could absorb recoil more efficiently than could metal. Far fewer problems were experienced over fatigue and fractures with the 4x.303's and 4x20mm grouped together than similar weapons systems in the Beaufighter, for instance.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

On the other hand, they got so few opportunities to do it.......

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Truth is stranger than bullshit!

I suppose I should explain a bit more on wood. The K-4 had it's fuselage redesigned & components of wood were used to lighten it, with metal skin retained. The idea here is to alter the power to weight ratio - to the positive, to increase climb, maneuverability etc. The wood tail on 109 I have read actually weighed more than its metal predessor. The 109 G was known to be chin heavy. The wood tail could possibly been added as a counter balance. Please note I said "possibly"

In the case of the Japanese & the Frank, wood was used because metal was scarce. But even in that case the wing tips were the 1st components to be changed to wood. The wing tips are nowhere near the pilot or motor. Another interesting factoid was that the D-9 prop was mostly wood, with metal edges. It woked wonderfully. In this case, I do not know if this was done because of metal shortages or if it was a performance trick, just don't know.

Eric, did Oskar ram on purpose? Also wonder if it was a Yak 3 or a 9. hard to tell I would think. Glad he escaped, bet he was too.

Interesting about wood accepting recoil better than metal. Wonder if that was one of the things in consideration for the all wood 109 wing concept. A friend of mine had a peek inside the D-9 at the Smithsonian isntitute. He said he saw wood inside the fuselage, so it would seem that Tank had the same idea as Willy did. The flaps on the D-9 were also lined with wood. Don't know why, saw a closeup color photo of the D-13 being rebuilt at Chamlain fighter museum.

Just finished a book about a Mosquito pilot. He said a P-38 had no chance against a Mosquito. He chased a few 190's as well, caught at least one. The speed was very similiar on the deck. Flypast is doing a big D-13 article for next months issue for those interested.

In reference to the accomplishments of the P-47 Thunderbolt in escort duty, General Kepner writes: " It is perhaps the moment to point out the following fact -- by far the larger proportion of our escort fighters to date have been P-47 Thunderbolts and their share of the 2321 enemy planes destroyed by this Command in combat, with 1496 probably destroyed amd damaged, is in ratio to their numbers. If it can be said that the P-38s struck the Luftwaffe in it's vitals and the P-51s are giving it the coup de grace, it was the Thunderbolt that broke it's back."

http://www.78thfightergroup.com/hist...lications.html

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One of the parishoners at my church flew P-47s in support of Anzio operations and the rest of the Italian Campaign. I need to keep after him for more stories and information. He gives the impression that he liked the plane a lot but that military fighter pilot life had more danger than just the enemy fighter pilots. He hasn't told me any stories about engaging enemy planes, but he has told a lot of stories about his plane being damaged/wrecked because of other circumstances.

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Keep at it, B.I.M. ! Opportunities to speak with such people are getting scarcer....

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson