Joe, that pretty pic you showed two posts above is of another one-off, or in this case two-off, as only two prototypes were made and then sent to the East Front for trials in 1942.

These had an adapted 12.8 cm flak gun, on the VK 3001 chassis, and by miracle one of them was captured intact (it sits at Kubinka museum now). According to Chamberlain/Doyle there are pics of it with 22 kill rings on the barrel. True? Propaganda pic? who knows?

In any case, if production went forward it would be yet another system to add to the long German logistical tail...

So you don't think I'm constantly bad mouthing the Germans, I do have a strong liking for the Pz IV and derivaties, and ditto for the 38(t) series and derivatives too. I shouldn't really write this in public, for if my controller sees this I'll have a lot of explanations to give in a private session back at the Party!

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

The VK 3001 chassis mounting the 12.8 cm and the 10.5cm K 18 auf Pz Sfl IVa were test chassis for the guns they mounted. Only two of each were built. The rationale for this was an operational design test between the two guns to see which should be used on the next generation Panzerjäger. The 12.8cm came out the winner and hence ended up on the JgPz VI JadgTiger.

Thanks, Terry, I only looked up at the Encyclopedia of German Tanks and it didn't say much more than what I said above. That 10.5 cm gun was also at the back of my mind, I didn't know the two vehicles were different.

(Holy schmutz, a guy saying "I didn't know" in this forum, that's a first!)

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

The two Vk 3001 vehicles were shipped to southern Russia and saw action with 16th Panzer until lost. They were nicknamed die Sture Emils (sort of a German version of the English Ugly Duckling) while the two Pz sfl IVa went to 3rd Panzer with AGC. These by most accounts operated until their unique ammuntion ran out at which point they were shipped back to Germany. I am not aware of what their ultimate fate was.

Just a brief (and possibly pointless ) defence of the stat-based & rather 'wargamey' slating of the Churchill (tried to resist... couldn't, I sometimes have this feeling I'm being prodded ):

Despite it's bizarre development process and certainly 'unusual' arrangements it had a superb rate of crew survivability, (possibly the greatest of any ww2 AFV?), and as Gerry chester can confirm (who was there) in Italy it generally dominated the Tiger due to it's remarkable climbing ability and a far faster rate of traverse combined with the shorter encounter ranges found in that terrain. Horses & courses, apples, oranges etc. Pretty effective in Crocodile form too.
I hope Gerry won't mind me saying so but for any tankophile who's not seen it his North Irish Horse website is one of the most interesting and thorough armour related sites on the web, well worth a read:
The North Irish Horse - By Gerry Chester

As for the Comet being a non-factor in the war; it was there, the 11th armoured crews loved it, reliable, useful, efficient, and deployed in greater numbers than German freakery like the Sturer Emil etc. that get so much coverage. Though Za has a major point about those weird and slightly scary front hatches.


Cheers,
Adam.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

Thankyou!

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Caption reads: Laxatives caused an elephant called Stefan to release an out-pouring of poo, burying it's pitiful trainer alive.

Kia posted this video in another board but I'd like some feedback from you tank guys.
YouTube - P-47 Takes Out Tiger Tank

The pilot mentions "many Tiger tanks towed a gasoline trailer behind them" and thats what Thunderbolt pilots aimed for. I've never read,saw on TV or on any website, a Tiger towing a gasoline trailer.

You guys??

Joe, you're a damn boot licker

Wargamey my backside! That's almost an insult!

I'm sure the designers of the Churchill had anticipated this and taken it into consideration when they were designing a 42 ton tank with a 2 pdr and 76mm howitzer (or vice versa, jeez )

That's being virtuous by chance

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

The Sturmtiger looks pretty slick

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Time is only enemy you'll never get rid of.

Just standing up for the underdog Za, and yes, 'wargamey' was almost certainly an insult.
Excellent climbing ability went with the strange, slow, heavily protected, Infantry tank concept. In that theatre once upgunned it was a design concept that paid off. (I know I'm doomed, I just can't help defending the better British Tanks better 'virtuous by chance' than nothing, & nobody got a Universal tank 'till postwar.)

Framer, I don't think I've seen a specifically Tiger fuel trailer either, though the allies experimented with a fair few, the loopy rotatrailer springs to mind. (can't find a web picture, have I got the name right? weird ball thing??)

Hawker, the Sturmmorser Tiger looks strangely pleasing but is also mad.

& yes Joe... you're a bootlicker.

Cheers,
Adam.

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"Wars cannot be fought with dream stuff" - Sir Percy Hobart.

I'd drive it on cruise night.
I don't know, but the tank looks something fierce, if you where in the streets of a European city knowing that, yes thats looking at you.

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Time is only enemy you'll never get rid of.

a 380mm rocket projector-turn a sherman into scrap metal even if it misses!

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Caption reads: Laxatives caused an elephant called Stefan to release an out-pouring of poo, burying it's pitiful trainer alive.

"Better" = "less crummy"

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

On the SturmTiger: 13 were built. These were put into three units StrumPz Kps 1001, 1002 and 1003. They were used exclusively in the West against the Allies. For the most part the vehicles were lost when the broke down and had to be abandoned.
There was only one occasion where Shermans supporting the 35th Infantry division shot up two of these vehicles in the Rhur pocket from Kp 1002. The only documented case I know of where these vehicles actually inflicted any damage on an opponet was at Pier Holland where Kp 1002 fired 13 rockets into the US lines causing 1 Kia and 3 wounded.
The original idea for the SturmTiger was for a vehicle that would be useful in urban fighting like occured at Stalingrad. The vehicles never saw action in that sort of enviroment and proved totally worthless in any other role. It was another case of wasting 13 tiger I chassis to produce another miniscule run oddity AFV of little or no use.

I wish the video actually showed a tiger getting destroyed. If you notice the vehicles that are burning they are trucks. The tanks were not hurt at all. This is no surprise because 50 cal rounds dont do well against plate armor. Hitting fuel cart doesnt hurt the tank, now I have heard that they tried to ricochet the rounds under the tank, off of cobble stones or other hard road surfaces. if the P-47 was using a 500lb bomb or a rocket then there would be a better chance of a kill.

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"What might work in New York City is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of, you know, blanket rules that they're going to try to impose, I think doesn't make sense." Hillary Clinton

(Photo removed for humanitarian reasons.)

But destroyng its fuel reserve can be as usefull as destroying the tank itself.

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Caption reads: Laxatives caused an elephant called Stefan to release an out-pouring of poo, burying it's pitiful trainer alive.

Exactly. There are very very few instances of tanks being actually disabled by air to ground firing, but soft-skin vehicles is an entirely different story.

Now, where are the statistics for this?

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Everly Brothers - What I Have To Do Is Dream
"Never wrestle with pigs, you both end up getting dirty and the pig likes it."

Can be... if no more fuel is available.

Good question. I wish we had it... anybody?

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"What might work in New York City is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of, you know, blanket rules that they're going to try to impose, I think doesn't make sense." Hillary Clinton

(Photo removed for humanitarian reasons.)

I think the T-28 looks mean too. Any info appreciated.

Let's see I like the Mk VI Tiger, The Mk V Panther Ausf G, The M-26 Pershing, T34/85 and that's about it really.