British artillery - can someone identify

Bob Chandler · #1 (**permalink**) May 11th, 2007, 08:19 PM

I'm pretty sure this is a 5.5 in howitzer but would be grateful for some confirmation. The second photo is dated September 1944. I'd like to get some further info on how this particular piece was employed, in particular how soon after D-Day was artillery like this brought into action. Any help much appreciated. Bob p.s. my late uncle Bill is in both these photos, he was the layer

Bob Chandler · #2 (**permalink**) May 11th, 2007, 08:21 PM

second picture

Martin Bull · #3 (**permalink**) May 11th, 2007, 08:38 PM

That certainly looks like a 5.5in Medium Gun. It's impossible to be 100% certain, as the 4.5in Medium Gun used the same carriage but had a longer barrel ; but the gun in the photo looks to have the shorter barrel.

This type of gun was the backbone of the Royal Artillery's 'mediums' and would have been in action immediately after D-Day. It was a superb weapon but took a lot of hard effort for its' crews to move around, weighing 6 tons.

One of the most famous actions for this type of gun was during Operation Market Garden, when the guns of 64th Rgt Medium Artllery and 49 Bn Heavy Artillery bombarded German positions just feet away from the hard-pressed Paratroopers in Oosterbeek. They were firing from Nijmegen, 8 miles away....

Between D-Day and VE Day, the 5.5s of 21 Army Group in NW Europe fired a total of 2,610,747 rounds.

Bob Chandler · #4 (**permalink**) May 11th, 2007, 09:01 PM

Many thanks for the information Martin. I have photos of my uncle going through Belgium 1944 to Germany in 1945 and am trying to get an idea of what he might have been involved in. Having grown up thinking everyone had photos like this, it now amazes me that they survived and I treasure them.

I've read one or two of the more general books about the Normandy campaign and for some reason the artillery rarely seems to get a mention. May have to pick your brains a bit further!

Bob

Martin Bull · #5 (**permalink**) May 11th, 2007, 10:05 PM

You're quite right, Bob - the gunners had a less-than-glamorous war of very hard work and considerable danger, with little publicity or high-profile decorations, etc.

A good book to read is 'The Guns Of Normandy' by George Blackburn which is, I think, currently available in paperback. Blackburn was a Canadian gunner on 25-pounders so would have been a bit closer to the 'front' than your Uncle, but the book is one of the very few WWII artillery memoirs and the author gives a very vivid account of the Normandy fighting. What sticks in my mind is his descriptions of the sheer exhaustion caused by continually having to move the guns, together with very little sleep.

Za Rodinu · #6 (**permalink**) May 12th, 2007, 11:19 AM

Bob, you may find something useful on British artillery in this website.

http://members.tripod.com/~nigelef/index.htm

sommecourt · #7 (**permalink**) May 12th, 2007, 01:03 PM

Yes, it's a 5.5.

Some useful info here as well:

http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.html

Martin Bull · #8 (**permalink**) May 12th, 2007, 02:44 PM

Bob -

I've remembered another book which I think you may find of considerable interest.

It is 'A Well-Known Excellence : British Artillery & Artillerymen In WWII ' by Denis Falvey ( Brassey's, 2002, ISBN 10-1857533127 ).

Although I can't lay my hand on it right now, the book is basically a memoir by a Medium Artilleryman who served with a battery from Normandy to the Elbe. The author also gives thoughts and reflections on many aspects of British artillery in NW Europe and I'm sure will answer many of your questions.

The good news is that it's still listed at Amazon at a 35% discount, making it about £13.....

Bob Chandler · #9 (**permalink**) May 13th, 2007, 06:19 PM

Many thanks one and all. With my birthday coming up in August, hints are already being dropped about the wonderful bargains available on Amazon...

One of the website links provided, the one to RA insignia, has prompted me to dig out another photo of my uncle, taken in Bad Zwischenahn, Germany on 28th June 1945. In case it's not come out too well, there is a shield/cross on the right mudguard which I take it is 21st Army Group, and on the other is an 'A' with '175' underneath. Am I right in thinking that this could indicate 13 Medium Regt? This would fit with him being on 5.5's.

Also - can anyone identify the vehicle?

Many thanks

Bob

Hawkerace · #10 (**permalink**) May 14th, 2007, 01:06 PM

Very interesting all, I may too have to get these books

Vince Noir · #11 (**permalink**) May 14th, 2007, 01:43 PM

Im afraid British trucks aint my strong point...

Is it a Scammell gun tractor? It looks like one to me...

If no-one else here knows, I can pass it onto a friend who will be able to ID the truck.

Von Poop · #12 (**permalink**) May 14th, 2007, 02:42 PM

The Truck is American/Canadian sourced lend-lease equipment.
Notoriously hard to identify from that dead ahead view as basic types were so similar.
Thought it had a 'dodge-ish' profile at first but none of the other details seem to fit.
Based largely on the shape of the brushguard for the radiator/headlights and the fact 2382 were supplied to Great Britain as Medium Artillery Tractors (MAT's) I'd plump for a Mack NM5 (or NM 6,7,8 which have minor detail differences)or Mack NR (very similar). Ward La France vehicles also look similar from that view (with the same shaped guard) but I believe were exclusively reserved for the RE and they are somewhat 'chunkier' than this one looks.

Being unable to see the back end I can't tell, but it may conceivably be in a wrecker configuration. I'd say the MAT was most likely though.

Cheers,
Adam.

Martin Bull · #13 (**permalink**) May 14th, 2007, 06:36 PM

I think you may be right, von Poop - I've hunted through all my books and various internet sites ; I was going to say GMC 6x6 ( which it isn't... ) and then Diamond T ( which it isn't...

) and it's certainly not a Dodge - the MAT would make sense in this context.....

Bob Chandler · #14 (**permalink**) May 14th, 2007, 07:40 PM

Many thanks indeed for the information on the vehicle - this was more or less my first thread on this forum and I'm really chuffed with the level of response and help I've had.

Any thoughts on the numbering on the mudguard? Regimental significance maybe?

Bob

sommecourt · #15 (**permalink**) May 16th, 2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Chandler

One of the website links provided, the one to RA insignia, has prompted me to dig out another photo of my uncle, taken in Bad Zwischenahn, Germany on 28th June 1945. In case it's not come out too well, there is a shield/cross on the right mudguard which I take it is 21st Army Group, and on the other is an 'A' with '175' underneath. Am I right in thinking that this could indicate 13 Medium Regt? This would fit with him being on 5.5's.

Bob

Hi Bob - Yes, the TAC sign is 13th Medium Regt RA.

Bob Chandler · #16 (**permalink**) May 16th, 2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sommecourt

Hi Bob - Yes, the TAC sign is 13th Medium Regt RA.

Many thanks for confirming that, Paul. I'd decided I really wanted to try to find out something a bit more specific about my uncle's RA service before we go to Normandy in a few weeks' time, & I feel like I'm on the trail now.

Regards

Bob