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Weapons in WWII Discussion about the weapons and war machines created during World War Two

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Old March 24th, 2008, 02:58 PM
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Default Most widely used German Tank

Which German tank was used more on the Eastern Front?
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Old March 24th, 2008, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I don´t have the actual figure of where the tanks went but as most went to ostfront I´d say the Pz IV ( long barrel ).

Total production figures:

Tank Production Germany Pz II, Pz 38(t), Pz III, StuG III, Pz IV , StuG IV, Jagd IV , Sturm IV , Hummel, Hornisse, Mobelwagen, Wirbelwind, Ostwind, Elefant, Panther, Jagdpanther, Tiger I, Tiger II, Jagdtiger
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Old March 24th, 2008, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I agree on the different versions of the Pzkfw IV. It was the workhorse of the Army
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Old March 24th, 2008, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

When it mattered? The Pz III. By the time the Pz IV was the primary tank with German forces in Russia the Germans had already lost the war and were just playing for time.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I'd go with Panzer IV Ausf's F2, G, and H lumped together.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I would agree as well on the Pzkfw. IV of all models; it was the Wehrmacht's version of the Luftwaffe's Messerchmitt Bf-109.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I agree.... The pzkfw. Iv It was the germany armys workhorse
The stug III/Iv was also used in big numbers
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Old March 25th, 2008, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

OK we have a few opinions and guesses. any hard facts?
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Old March 25th, 2008, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I can tell you the Russian's most used tank with hard facts with references in many books and wesbites
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Old March 26th, 2008, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

Up through late 1943 the Pz III was still the most significant tank in the German inventory. At that point it was being deployed in roughly equal numbers to the Pz IV in most panzer divisions. It isn't until nearly the beginning of 1944 that the Pz IV becomes the dominant tank. By then the Pz IV is also quickly being replaced by the Panther, and by mid to late 1944 it is now only in service in about equal numbers to the Pz V.
So, we can easily see that the Pz III was the tank the Germans fought most of their war with.
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Old March 26th, 2008, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I agree with Terry's view. Look up a roster of IInd SSPZKorps for the Kursk battle and you'll see the most significant tank at this culminating battle was the Pz III. There was a low number of PzIVs there.

I don't have the figures on hand as all my books are packed, however it will all be in Nafziger and Niklas/Zetterling.

Meanwhile I found this in The German Order of Battle at Kursk

Remember there were two other PzKorps involved in Army Group South (3rd and 48th), plus what was available to 9th Army (A.G. North) (41st with one PzDiv.; 47th and 46th with 4 Inf.Divs, but not a single Pz.Div., so be careful with German pompous sounding designations )

Production was being shifted from PzIII to StuG III, and PzIV production was being increased, but of course Kursk was the last large German offensive so all of what came later with PzIVs and PzVs were defensive battles. The big Barbarossa victories were dependent on the Pz III and Pz II.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

I would agree with the Pz IV as a true TANK, but the most used AFV would have to be the StuG III, the germans made more of those than any other armored vehicle around 9000 if you count the StuH 42 as well
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Old March 31st, 2008, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

The number of Panzer IIIs produced from 1939 to 1943 was appox. 5676 of all marks. Thats not including the 10,635 various marks of the StuG III and StuH 42 from 1940-1945. The Panzer IV had 8298 of all marks from 1939-1945. and 1,141 Stug IV. The majority of Panzer IIIs from 1941 -1943 were used on the Eastern Front.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

The Panzer 4's. The Germans invaded with those and the Tigers and Panthers were not made until 1943.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

Actually the IV's where a minority during the Blitzkrieg stages. It was the II's and III's that did most of the invading.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

Although I agree with the Panzer IV's being a minority during the invasion of france and the initial invasion of Russia and Norht Africa, I would have to say that the Panzer IV would have been the overall most used tank during the war. Being developed and produced from beginning to end, it was used on many varients of models from A - J tanks, tanks destoryers, AA tanks and support vehicles. It also was much better equipped then the Pz III and better armoured.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hufflepuff View Post
I would agree as well on the Pzkfw. IV of all models; it was the Wehrmacht's version of the Luftwaffe's Messerchmitt Bf-109.
The Bf-109 and PzKpfw IV where quite similar, both of them where workhorses, and both where heavily upgraded, often with reduction in performance, by wars end. They both served right through the war too.
So, I have to agree the IV was the most widely used tank.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

Quote:
Originally Posted by USArmySoldierMP View Post
The Panzer 4's. The Germans invaded with those and the Tigers and Panthers were not made until 1943.
The German Tigers and Panthers although quite powerful and capable of doing more then any other German tank in their inventory, they were few in number and available to later in the war. The tiger was also hard to produce so even less were completed, so they cant possible fit into this thread.

So yes the PanzerKampfwagon IV (PzKpfw IV) wins
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Old April 8th, 2008, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

After Pz III production wond down, yes.

And as read elsewhere:
Quote:
The Germans were under no illusions about the capabilities of the Panzer IV in 1944-45. It was considered overweight, underpowered, underarmoured and undergunned and reliability seems to have begun to suffer from the 40% increase in weight over the original design. Historically, in the summer of 1944 there were high hopes that Panzer IV production could be ended all together in favour of an improved vehicle using components from the Panzer III and IV for both a gun tank and a StuG/Jagdpanzer. That didn't materialize, but Panzer IV production was cut several times in 1944 in favour of the latter type of vehicle. First Krupps Panzer IV production was redirected to make StuG IVs, then Vomag changed over to Jagdpanzer IV & Panzer IV/70(V) production and finally the production at Nibelungen-Werke was cut by 30-40% to make Panzer IV/70(A). This underlines the fact that the Panzer IV was no longer considered a very desirable tank.

Of course, not all the Panzer IVs produced in stead of Panthers and Tigers would've been Ausf. Hs. The complicated electrical turret traverse system was dropped in 1944 with the Ausf. J and that would likely have happened regardless as the reason seems to have been to save materials and/or simplify production.

...

The problem is that the Panzer IV did not have any room left for improvement after they barely managed to shoehorn the long 75mm gun into it and after weighing it down with 80mm front hull armour and Schürzen. It was not for the lack of trying they never improved it further, it was because the chassis just couldn't handle any more weight without a complete redesign. That is why none of the sloped hull projects got off the ground.

There is simply no point in speculating about an improved Panzer IV, it wasn't possible.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

Would the fact that more ausf's of Panzer III's were made(A-M) as opposed to Panzer IV's(A-J) indicate anything about overall usage/production?
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Old April 8th, 2008, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

Not necessarily. When did the last Mk III roll out the assembly line compared to the last Mk IV? Both Mk III and IVs were needed whereas when the Mk VI rolled out, I suspect that is when production of the Mk III stopped. When the Mk V rolled out, I suspect production of the Mk IV was cut back if not stopped altogether. The fast introduction of the Mk V compared to the MkVI determined total numbers produced for the Mk III and IV. Make sense?

Different versions does not mean more. Just means upgrades.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Most widely used German Tank

PzJgr, it might be of interest to you that the plants producing Pz V were those phasing out production of Pz III, therefore no impact on Pz IV production. Pz IV and Pz V were produced concurrently, the Pz Reg TOE for the Pz Div for 1944 and onwards contained one Abteilung each of Pz IV and Pz V.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 09:43 PM
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