Axis

Members: 5,661
Threads: 17,375
Posts: 216,477
Online: 320

Newest Member:
Bangkok Swede

 
 
 
Go Back   World War II Forums > General Discussion > Weapons in WWII
Register FAQ Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Weapons in WWII Discussion about the weapons and war machines created during World War Two

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2008, 11:47 PM
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: U. S.
Posts: 3,386
Salute!: 0
Saluted 5 Times in 5 Posts
T. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really nice
Default The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

The Horten XVIII and XVIIIb came up in a "what-if" thread as a potential "Amerika Bomber." I thought that comparing it to an actual quite similar post war aircraft would be instructive of just how myopically euphemistic the Germans got towards the end of the war in casting about for a war winning wonder weapon.

The Horten design called for a 4,000 kg (8,800 lb) bombload on an aircraft with roughly a 150 foot wing span using either 4 to 6 HeS 011 (2,866 lbs thrust) or 8 Jumo 004 (1980 lbs thrust) jet engines for power. The aircraft was to be built largely of wood. Most other details of this aircraft are sketchy at best. It was not constructed and never flew.

Northrop's YB-49 jet engined flying wing bomber did fly however. Its chararcteristics were:
Wingspan of 172 feet. Loaded weight 190,000 lbs. Power was provided by 8 Westinghouse J35-A-15 engines rated at 3,750 lbs thrust or about double that proposed in the Horten design. Service ceiling was 40,700 feet. Range with a 10,000 lb bombload was 1403 miles at 367 knots speed. Maximum speed was 428 knots at 20,800 feet.
Unlike the earlier propeller driven XB 35, the YB 49 was found by test pilots to be "extremely unstable" and " impossible to hold a steady course or constant airspeed or altitude." In tests against the B-29 and B-29D (aka B-50) its performance was considered poor and inferior. The YB-49 proved to have a CEP on bombing runs over double that of the B-29. For this and other reasons, Northrop's design was cancelled.

Basically, there is little credible evidence that even if built that the Horten design would have proved somehow even equal in performance to the US craft. It would have been undoubtedly heavier relying on wooden construction in many areas. The Jumo 004 engines could not have been reliably expected to last a full mission with at least the failure of one or two during flight due to their low life expectancy. The HeS 011 engine was never really tested and did not reach production so we can't know what its actual performance might have been.
With higher specific fuel consumption, the Horten design would never have reached its intended range specification of a bit over 6,000 miles. It is more likely if it had flown that it would have had a performance worse than that of the YB-49. This means that it might have a 1,000 or so mile range and a cruising speed such that even late WW 2 piston engined fighters could have intercepted it.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old April 14th, 2008, 06:02 AM
Dishonorably Discharged
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 22
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
berlinette is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

I really like the HO IX, it is still a beautiful plane and truly advanced design for it's day.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HO IX.jpg (120.5 KB, 5 views)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old April 14th, 2008, 11:16 PM
Za Rodinu's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where Iron Crosses grow
Posts: 7,010
Salute!: 11
Saluted 12 Times in 8 Posts
Za Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

As much as the YB-49, so why single the Ho out? Because of the sexy paint scheme? Bah!
__________________
Ceterum censeo, Carthago esse delendam.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old April 14th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Dishonorably Discharged
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 22
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
berlinette is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Za Rodinu View Post
As much as the YB-49, so why single the Ho out? Because of the sexy paint scheme? Bah!

No, I just happen to like that one.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2008, 12:26 AM
Dishonorably Discharged
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 22
Salute!: 0
Saluted 0 Times in 0 Posts
berlinette is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

The HO IX was a better design than the Northrop and smaller, faster than the HO XVIII.
Just a pretty slick aircraft, if they had more time it could have become the best fighter.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2008, 08:34 AM
TA152's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 3,028
Salute!: 11
Saluted 7 Times in 4 Posts
TA152 is a jewel in the roughTA152 is a jewel in the roughTA152 is a jewel in the roughTA152 is a jewel in the roughTA152 is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

This is one of the first powered flying wings. He did not have backers so the plane went no where.
I seem to recall Bellanica designed a flying wing but I can not find a picture for it and I don't recall the name.

A Rocky Road to the Clouds | BusinessWeek
__________________
Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2008, 10:54 AM
Za Rodinu's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where Iron Crosses grow
Posts: 7,010
Salute!: 11
Saluted 12 Times in 8 Posts
Za Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

Quote:
Originally Posted by berlinette View Post
The HO IX was a better design than the Northrop
Please explain why.
__________________
Ceterum censeo, Carthago esse delendam.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Za Rodinu's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where Iron Crosses grow
Posts: 7,010
Salute!: 11
Saluted 12 Times in 8 Posts
Za Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of lightZa Rodinu is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: The Horten XVIII and the YB-49

Ah well, see here how the Horten and Northrop principles are different.

Horten Nurflugels

OpenDNS

Funnily the Raiders of the Lost Ark Flying Wing was based on one of the Northrop concepts
Raiders of the Lost Ark, Flying Wing Fight Scene • VideoSift: Online Video *Quality Control
__________________
Ceterum censeo, Carthago esse delendam.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Horten 229 kit for sale Stevin Modelling 5 July 12th, 2004 10:03 PM


Google
 

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2000 - 2007, the World War II Network, all rights reserved.Ad Management by RedTyger

Allies