Yes, they were a hard nut to crack.

Again I agree. A pity the Landser had to die serving a criminal leadership. He who sows the winds make others reap the storms.

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"Originally Posted by Hawkmoon432k
... The fact that the bulk of the German armed forces were horse drawn makes their heroic stand against superior numbers AND superior equipment even more astounding..."

But Wait!!! Some here claim the the Allies equipment was inferior to the Germans!!! LOL But I digress again LOL. I do NOT impune the abilities of the average German soldier. As stated above this was to poke fun at some and also to inform some that what some people think is in fact incorrect . BTW does anyone know how many horses it would take to tow the awesome Tiger I to the front? LOL

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Za might know...

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690 horses actually. One Maybach HL230P30 (690hp)

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LOL. Must be hell to pull the Tiger II!!!! I have to admit that the Germans were good at delaying the enevitable though.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Surprisingly enough, the Tiger 2 even with the same engine could have it's mobility moments. More than once he managed to impress it's foes with a fast movement forward. It must've had a high low gear ratio to get more polwer from those first 3 gears...



Cheers...

"Ahem. The Sherman was superior to the Panzer III and IV."

I'd disagree with this, in that I'd think the IV, especially the upgraded versions, to be better than the Sherman, IMHO. But, this is not the right thread for this.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

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LOL. But how many HORSES?! LOL. Not horse power! LOL

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

"Once a horse-drawn carriage filled with Wehrmacht officers rolled by, and Goodson started thinking about the wartime Germany, how little it had changed, and the first time he saw the black crosses on a Bf-109. That was in 1940-41, when he was flying with the RAF."

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_goodson.html

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

better question,,how many shermans would be needed to pull a TigerII as a number when fuel ended, drained the hydraulic oil from breech blocks, fired their 88 rendering them useless, and disabled them as a roadblock??

"Volumes have been written on the equipment of the German Army of World War II, including tanks, trucks, motorcycles, weapons, and personal equipment, but little has been written on the horses that made up 80% of its transportation. Horses pulled everything an army needed in the field by wagon or on its back and more horses were used in World War II than in any other war in history."


Horses of the German Army in World War II. Paul Louis Johnson

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Jnfanterie Kerren (Infantry Carrier)The Wehrmacht (German armed forces) used hand pulled trailers in large numbers as there was always a shortage of mechanical transport. Despite the modern image of the Wehrmacht it relied heavily on horse drawn transport and bicycles for its infantry divisions.
The trailer has interchangeable towing arms a short bar (carried on the front) enabled it to be towed by a motorcycle combination or small vehicle. It could also be used to join two or more trailers together. A shaft for towing by horse was also available
Versions included a anti aircraft mounted MG36 or MG42 and racks for anti tank weapons.Jnfanterie Kerren (Infantry Carrier)This is a special purpose carrier, as yet for a unknown use, possibly a light mortar or a generator. The Wehrmacht (German armed forces) used hand pulled trailers in large numbers as there was always a shortage of mechanical transport. Despite the modern image of the Wehrmacht it relied heavily on horse drawn transport and bicycles for its infantry divisions.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

You left out the Japanese, Italians, Austrians, Hungarians, Finns (at times) and the forced labour of the whole of occupied Europe.

Imagine if they were mechanized and bomb free? Why not imagine if they had sharks with lazors while you're at it?

Ugh, not this old chestnut. When it was first introduced, the Sherman was indeed a very capable tank, but the US were too slow to improve it, unlike the Germans. By 1942, the Germans had improved the PzIV and III so that, in most respects, the Sherman was outclassed. IIRC, the PzIVg's 75mm gun could take out a Sherman via the turret front from around 1,000m, for instance.

ROTFL!!! Thats a good one! . It basically comes do to a certain FACT that in REAL LIFE they were not as mechanized as some think or hoped and they still LOST. This aint no "What If ?".

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Like I have said this thread isn't a comparison of AFVs especially the Sherman. That has been debated Ad Nauseum in other threads.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

I'm really curious what you are basing a PzIII out class