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  #26 (permalink)  
Old May 27th, 2008, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

I thought I'd recheck the Short book for some clearer reference to the sourcing of turrets.
Three types used:
Some ausf. A taken straight from the production line, mostly went to the Hitler line.
Then some earlier ausf. D, presumably from reconditioned/battle damaged/ converted stock.
And finally a specially designed turret, the 'Ostwallturm' or 'Ostbefestigung', with a narrower mantlet, cupola replaced by a simple hatch with a single periscope, & roof armour beefed up from 16mm to 65mm.

He then descends into much detail on production figures and manufacturers... c.180 turrets deployed in this way.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old June 14th, 2008, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

Seems just a waste of turrets and mobility to use them in fixed positions.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

It isn't when you don't have the fuel needed to power the vehicle supposedto be beneath the turret. Either way, you're done for
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2008, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFalkenbergIII View Post
Seems just a waste of turrets and mobility to use them in fixed positions.
The majority of these turrets that saw action in WW2 more than justified their placement, with multiple kills and sometimes large allied formations tied up by them.
As opposed to a waste it seems uncommonly efficient of the Germans to use up these turrets in this way rather than leave 'em rusting in some yard somewhere. When as severely on the defensive as Germany became, mobility can be sacrificed for excellent placement and concealment. They're also, on the whole, a lot cheaper than custom designed Bunker armaments.
The cost effectiveness is underlined by the sheer number of turret emplacements still being built worldwide along Cold war borders postwar, from Greece to Finland, it was still considered worthwhile to recycle 'obsolete' tank turrets into useful emplacements.

Cheers,
Adam.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old June 19th, 2008, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

Any Info on how many kills? Were there emplacemant "Aces" LOL
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Old July 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

How about in other areas other then Italy?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old July 4th, 2008, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCFalkenbergIII
How about in other areas other then Italy?
Cobbled together a rough and incomplete list, with types where they're mentioned.

Alderney (16 turrets, 7 with 3.7cm & MG, 9 with just 3.7)
Guernsey (c.30, 20XFT17)
Jersey (61)
Utah (many)
Omaha (??)
Juno (2-3?)
Sword (handful??)
Belgium & Netherlands (c.4000 ringstande, but no data on how many carried turrets)
Denmark (c.169-194.)
Norway (151+)
Spanish border (2Xpz.38t 18XPz.1&2 planned but a handful completed)
Eastern Front Total (c.694)
Soviet Union (c.1830
Poland (fair few, many captured T34 turms, no specific data.)
Germany (Many, no specific data)
Italy (191 in total, 91+pz.I turrets, many Pantherturm, possibly many more Italian turrets though it's uncertain these were finished)
Balkans (409 turrets, mostly Pz.1&2)
North Africa (Dug in Matildas)
West Wall
Finland (Many, primarily captured Soviet types)
Far East (Handful of dug in Ha-go & Chi-ha)

The above doesn't include the Sockellafetten mounts of tank guns.

Panther turrets specifically:
Stahluntersatz (metal base).
Atlantic/West wall - 119
Italy - 18
East - 6
Total - 143

Betonsockel (concrete)
Atlantic/West wall - 63
Italy - 30
East - 30
Schools/Experimental - 2
Total - 125

Overall Panther total - 268.

Cheers,
Adam
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old July 4th, 2008, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: The German use of tank turrets in fortifications

Cool! Thanks . Especially the Panther turrets on the West Wall.
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