I've always wondered but could never find out what weapon was better, the M1 or the Ghewer-43, since from what I found out there similar types of rifles I just wondered which one is better

M1 was superior mainly due to better reliability, faster reloading, and better workmanship (the G-43 was not designed for long term use and was supposed to be scrapped after a few thousand rounds were fired).

The G-43 was issued differently- mostly to designated riflemen/sharpshooters in infantry sections or randomly given to NCOs. German parachute infantrymen and volksgrenadier units received more than their fair share of these as well.

__________________
Best World War 2 Comics

Look at these thread first.

K98k or M1 Garand

best rifle

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

I have read recently that the M1 Garand didnt fair too well in the cold... ?

__________________
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Personally I'd take the G43 any day of the week. It's not even a choice.

According to the write up it was essentially a redevelopment of the less successful G(w)41 with Tokarev influences (the action is virtually identical). It was easy to manufacture and said to be of excellent quality. Sniper scope was a standard fitment. Length was dropped 5cm in 1944 and this version received the Karabiner designation.

Logistical realities aside, an ideal outfit in 1944 would be StG44 standard with the G43 among sharpshooters and K44 among NCO's of troop support teams (MG and mortars). A pretty deadly combination.
Considering the conservative elements (common to all militaries) were responsible for the M1 remaining the main infantry weapon into the postwar years, a perfectly fair comparison is the Garand and the StG44. In Germany progressive minds prevailed and the G43 was given a back seat to the assault rifle during 1944, with its low powered rounds. Even at its inception a role was being cast with the standard fitment of a telescopic sight, a little expensive to go giving every infantryman where the rifle itself was relatively cheap.

The M1 you'd have to regard as the ultimate development of 19th century tactical ideas. But with some people you actually have to drag them kicking and screaming into a change they later become a champion of. Everybody just wants to be the one who thought of everything, when really it doesn't matter. Life isn't really a sports contest.

Garand

__________________
"It's only the internet"- Adam Von Poop

For Sniping I would take the G43, but otherwise Garand.

__________________
-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

You do realize that as realistic as Call of Duty is, it is still a video game. I will refer you to the M1C and M1D varients of the Garand

__________________
"It's only the internet"- Adam Von Poop

The Gewehr 43 proved to be a far more superior desighn to the Tokaren and it turn out to be a particularly lethal Rifle.

Lentgh-94cm
weight-46.kg (empty)5.2 kg (loaded)
Mag-30 round bot
Muzzle Velocity- 650 metres per second
Rate per fire- 500 per min.
Calibre- 7.92 mm (short)


M1 rifle garand
The most reliable self loader of the era,but it also had a flaw- To laod the bolt was drawn back and lock.

Length-110cm
Weight- 4.4 kg
Calibre- 0.30 in 7.62 mm
Mag- 8 round clip
Rate of fire- Simi automatic only
Muzzle Velocity- 850 metres per sec

Sloniksp,

This is according to the RT-66 Korean War website, but according to the webmaster veterans found the M1 carbine to be undependable in cold weather. The M1 rifle remained a resounding success.

Heidi,

Is it possible you meant the StG-44?

Triple C- It is possible! The information on the 43 & 44 rifle guns were right next to each other,my eyes must have wondered across! darn it.
What information is wrong?

HA, im basing my opinion of what I have been told and have read. I am not some foolish child who simply thinks that what is in video games must be true because it is there. Bug off until you get your facts straight.

__________________
-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Please enlighten me o'sage of the battle rifle. What facts do I not have straight?

__________________
"It's only the internet"- Adam Von Poop

What I meant from that is to not act like you know me and assume im a stupid kid.

__________________
-Dustin

Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

It was found in the Korean "Police Action" that the Garand's had the tendency to 'lock up' after being sitting unused in sub-zero (F) cold overnight time in a foxhole. It was also found that the GI could simply piss on the action and it was ready to go. I wonder if that may have come from the fact these were rifles taken out of surplus storage, and perhaps not cleaned well enough before they were taken into combat. Not making that as an excuse, but a possibility.

There is little referrence to the Garand ever "locking up" during the ETO at any time during any winter exposure. And the winter of '44-'45 was one of the most brutal the western area of Europe ever had (til that time). Now the little M1 Carbine is a differnt "ball of worms", in weather under 0 (F), my own would shoot the first round, and then not recycle. That was probably due to the lower powder charge as much as anything. It turned into a "single shot" for the first three shots, and then the explosion heat got everything up and working just fine. Many of our hunting times in Montana do run into sub-zero temps quite often, but if it is above zero my little Carbine worked first time, every time.

__________________
Happy Trails,
Clint.

Thanks for the info guys. I have actually just finished watching Patton 360 on the history channel... (now dont get excited, I know that that aint exactly the best source ) however, they spoke about the M1 and coincidentally mentioned how soldiers at Bastonge would suffer from M1 locking up after the oil(?) which lubricated the rifle would freeze up.

Any info on this?

__________________
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Jack (SWPV),


Given your first hand experience in the jungle, can you give me your 'estimate' of the 'average' range of a jungle rifle shot?

A weapon such as the Garand would be best at 200+ yards, but a sub-machine gun would be better at 50 or 75 yards I feel.

In other words, if I had a choice in the jungle I would much prefer a SMG than any type of full length rifle. Certainly the semi-auto Garand would have been better than the Australians bolt action Lee-Enfield. (As the USMC is supposed to say, "ammo is cheap, life is not")

....and did you ever have the opportunity to try the Lee-Enfield, the 'Owen' SMG and the 'Bren' LMG?

.....and if so, what was your impressions?



John.

__________________
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". - Voltaire.

All around the M1 was superior. Advantages, top quality workmanship and metallurgy and well proven design.

Advantages of G43, 10 round detachable magazine capacity that could be topped up in between firings vs. the m1's 8 round clip that could not be topped up. Easier fitting of telescopic sight to the G43 and often used in this role. Fewer parts than the M1 garand.
Disadvantages of G43, crude workmanship and extensive use of medium to low quality castings in the receiver with minimum of machining. I have never read any accounts written by German troops that indicated the G43 suffered any loss of reliability due to its faster but cruder construction.

Until the MP 44 was introduced and available in significant numbers, there were plans that all German troops would eventually be equipped with the G43 - but it quickly was realized that the MP 44 and its smaller round was superior according to German tactical doctrine. Over 500,000 of each G-43 and MP44 were manufactured by wars end.



German soldier shown with MP-44 sturmgewehr and G43 rifle plus panzerfaust, Eastern front, 1945

I choose the M1 'Garand'. Theres really no need for a reason.

The g43 did have a pretty fast rate of fire but thats due on how fast you can pull the trigger.

M1 Garand is the say way but with a little less rate of fire. If you include bump which is kind of different.

But its not always rate of fire that wins the battle. And thats where the M1 comes in handy.

It gets the job done. period.

__________________
-MarineRaider
Carlson's Raiders of 2nd Marine Raider Battalion

I think the Garand is better, the G43 was not built to be used for a long time

I reeeeeeeally hope your not talking about bump firing in a combat situation.

__________________
"If your only opportunity is to be equal then it is not opportunity"

-Margaret Thatcher

No, because that would be impossible to do in a combat situation. lol

__________________
-MarineRaider
Carlson's Raiders of 2nd Marine Raider Battalion