But of course you can disregard those because of its gun's kenetic energy....right?

__________________


"If you want peace work for justice" -Pope Paul VI

Jon

No Jagdtiger...its not solely because of its gun/kinetic energy..rather that this SPG/TD is a good combination of Arm/Mobility and Firepower.

In the case of the Su152...absolutely...!! Its gun is the whole reason for it making the list! Though im probably stretching calling it a true TD as its more of an assault gun with AT capabilities.

Jag..the other forum was only about the gun...this is/was about the whole tank/destroyer.

Though again I granted your point that overall it has many issues and wasnt built in great numbers.

just realized I read your list completely backwards, so that makes some more sense

Why no M18? Weak armor?

__________________


"If you want peace work for justice" -Pope Paul VI

Jon

Yeah sorry about that I'm vertically dyslexic...

M18 is definitely up there, it could sub for the jagdpanther easily..its speed is insane but its armor is just a bit too light for my tastes..its effectiveness in terms of military record though really doesn't bear my leaving it off..it most certainly was one of the top 5 most effective...

Mostly I just wanted to give a thumbs up to the Russkie machines. As i think they really perfected it.

I mean the M18 is clearly more effective than a Marder but I'd give the Marder the edge as I think it gets points for being such an efficient use of what was available.

It's a pretty good list, but where is the StuG III/IV? The assault gun was both the heavy direct fire support unit and the infantry's principle AT defense.

Are you talking about the Achilles or the Archer?

__________________


"If you want peace work for justice" -Pope Paul VI

Jon

yup my bad I meant the Archer and typed Achilles...edited it thanks!

As for the Stug well it certainly could have made the list, much in the same way that the M18 really should be.its more personal preference than true merit..though its still debatable.

Aside:
History Channel's "Patton 360 - Operation Blitzkrieg" the 2nd half is of this episode, about Operation Cobra near Lorient & Mortain is on this thread. Good bit on General Von Klug, the Axis' "RPG," Teller anti-tank mine, USAAF anti-tank strategies etc, etc.

Concerning the issue of Hydraulic turret operation vs electric. Given a choice, I'd go electric. I'd survive longer.

Hydraulic fluid burns very well. Also, if it breaks down or is damaged you have a larger job to do fixing it. Repairing the broken/damaged area, bleeding the system, etc. Jury-rigging becomes less of an option than an electrical system.

BTW, Here's a very good book on US Tank Destroyers:


http://www.amazon.com/Tank-Killers-H...6062889&sr=8-1

__________________
"I love deadlines. I love the 'Whooshing' noise they make when they go by." - Doug Adams

Own it, love it. "The tank destroyer was the most successful failed idea of the US Army during the Second World War" summed up with precision what went wrong with the TD concept. The tank destroyer battalions were remarkably efficient in hunting tanks, but what invalidated the idea was the lack of versatility and cost-effectiveness of SP TDs.

is this effective as a vehicle or effective by how they are used?
if the 2nd one then i say.

5. Archer
able to escape quick enough because of its build, 17 pdr very effective.

4. jagdpanzer IV/70
awesome gun, very low profile.

3. SU 100
even bigger gun! if used properly it is able to score successfully.

2. Hornisse/Nashorn
armour a let down, compensated for very effective gun. the longest ever kill was in a Hornisse which was a pershing 1945 or a T-34 in russia 1943, cant remember.

1. Jagdpanther.
unbeatable armour on the front powerful gun, solid chassis.

__________________
News today, a man has fallen into a chocolate vat in the arnotts factory

In other news arnotts have anounced that there will be 50% more tim in your tim tams.
(p.s. only aussies will get this joke)

5. Marder III
4. SU100
3. Hetzer
2. Archer
1. Jagdpanther

__________________
Best Regards, Hufflepuff

mines,mines,mines.may not destroy a tank,but would disable it and then allow the crew to be killed whilst trying to escape.

__________________
"I must have been keen on her,I took her to see INDIA...AT THE OVAL.". thankyou all,4th wilts.