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| Weapons in WWII Discussion about the weapons and war machines created during World War Two |

October 12th, 2009, 08:38 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner
In West Germany the Panzerfaust was resurrected in the Panzerfaust 3 as well.
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Ummmm... Panzerfaust was a descendant of PzF 44 Lanze, which had not much to do with Panzerfaust (except the same kind of warhead - as every AT-weapon at that time). Do you mean Panzerschreck?
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October 12th, 2009, 08:42 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
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Originally Posted by sf_cwo2
Are you guys afraid of research? I don't know what your hang-up is. I never said it was perfect. It was done. Watch the '45 wochenschau vids of Großdeutschland units fighting (IIRC in East Prussia). You'll see the technique in use. Wait-- maybe they are firing at really, really, really low-flying aircraft and the missed rounds happened to impact the ground near enemy units! But how do you explain the training video... gross translation errors?
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What you saw was the panzerfaust being used in a direct fire role. They were aiming it at the target, it was just that the drop in the trajectory of the warhead after it was fired was so great they had to hold the weapon at a steep angle in order to hit the target.
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October 13th, 2009, 12:59 AM
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Alte Hase 
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Re: Panzerfaust
if you guys-some of you are referring to a bunker buster then yes, it was used in house to house on the Ost front besides laying in the open with the Panzerfaust 150 which had a rough range of 100 yds US for the typcial wait for the Soviet panzer and don't miss !
it was used in varying roles
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October 13th, 2009, 06:25 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visukinttu
Ummmm... Panzerfaust was a descendant of PzF 44 Lanze, which had not much to do with Panzerfaust (except the same kind of warhead - as every AT-weapon at that time). Do you mean Panzerschreck?
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Umm, what do you mean? The PzF 44 and PzF 3 are both follow-on programs of the WW2 panzerfaust series.
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October 17th, 2009, 10:49 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
My favorite comment on weapons of this type is quoted as the following.
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The difficult terrain on which the winter campaign was fought, the prevalence of pitched battles at night and in fog, the tactical failure of the American 57-mm. antitank gun, and the paucity of German assault guns and self-propelled tank destroyers brought the bazooka into a place of prominence on both sides of the line. Admittedly the bazooka was a suicide weapon, but there were always brave men-mostly platoon and squad leaders-to risk its use against an enemy tank. In the autumn of 1944 the German Army recognized that it was too late for building tank destroyers in the numbers required and that in any case fuel was lacking for their transport into battle. Therefore the decision was made to build hand rocket weapons and rely on the courage of the "single fighter"-a decision like that made in 1917-1918 when the Kaiser's army turned to armor-piercing rifles in the hands of the single fighter to stop Allied tanks. In December 1944 both sides learned that infantry companies armed with bazookas could not do the work of tank destroyers.
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October 19th, 2009, 11:46 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple C
My favorite comment on weapons of this type is quoted as the following.
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What was the quote from? It pretty much reflects my views of infantry weapons almost exactly.
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October 19th, 2009, 02:46 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
The Ami official history of the Battle of the Bulge. I think that comment about hand-held infantry AT weapons remain true today.
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October 20th, 2009, 03:39 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
If I'm not mistaken, the Faust was the first shaped-charge warhead to be used in military service.
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October 20th, 2009, 03:54 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sack Time
If I'm not mistaken, the Faust was the first shaped-charge warhead to be used in military service.
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You are mistaken. The first hollow charge weapon used in action was the German Half-Hohlladung in various sizes. The use of large 50kg charges at the fortress Eben Emal in Belgium was the first actual use. The 3kg charge with magnets was used as an antitank weapon.
Next up was the US bazooka. The Panzerschrek actually proceeded the Panzerfaust in development too.
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October 20th, 2009, 05:58 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner
You are mistaken. The first hollow charge weapon used in action was the German Half-Hohlladung in various sizes. The use of large 50kg charges at the fortress Eben Emal in Belgium was the first actual use. The 3kg charge with magnets was used as an antitank weapon.
Next up was the US bazooka. The Panzerschrek actually proceeded the Panzerfaust in development too.
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Well these probably saw action before the bazooka:
No. 68 AT Grenade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And I believe the bazooka was based on the US equivalant.
High explosive anti-tank warhead - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
lists several other HEAT rounds that probably saw action before the bazooka.
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October 22nd, 2009, 12:04 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner
You are mistaken. The first hollow charge weapon used in action was the German Half-Hohlladung in various sizes. The use of large 50kg charges at the fortress Eben Emal in Belgium was the first actual use. The 3kg charge with magnets was used as an antitank weapon.
Next up was the US bazooka. The Panzerschrek actually proceeded the Panzerfaust in development too.
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Thanks for the info. Actually never heard of the German HH. I need to brush up on my anti-tank weapon history it seems.
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October 22nd, 2009, 01:41 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Well, lwd, Wikipedia (as you probably know, not trying to discredit you here) might not be the best source. Although these look like good articles, so it works for me. Also, I heard (from The Fall of Berlin 1945) that captured 'fausts were definately used in house to house fighting. In essence, the theory was: need a wall blown down? Use a panzerfaust. Pros: Shockwave kills a bunch of people, a panzerfaust can easily blow through a brick wall, and a warm backdraft provides a nice respite from the winter cold!
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October 22nd, 2009, 02:21 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
The British Mk 68 and US M9A1 antitank rifle grenades appear at about the same time. The Bazooka and original Rakentenwerfer 43 Puppchen are next in line with the Bazooka getting into service in mid 42 with the Puppchen following by late 42 early 43. The Panzerfaust goes into trials in March 43 and a pre-production field trials batch of 3000 was released in July 43 to the East front.
The Germans also produced a range of HEAT antitank rifle grenades for their standard rifle grenade discharger cup and the 27mm Kampfpistolle from mid 42 on as well. These were copied by the Japanese and issued in limited numbers starting in 1944 also.
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October 22nd, 2009, 10:47 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
What about that strange contraption fired from the Pak 36 ?
Think it was called Stielgranade 41 and was in use by 1942.
HEAT rounds Gr 38 HL for the 75mm weapons were also in use in 1942 and possibly earlier.
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October 22nd, 2009, 01:59 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesehead121
Well, lwd, Wikipedia (as you probably know, not trying to discredit you here) might not be the best source.
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Indeed. Especially with more obscure info. However this was consistent with what I remember reading about the development of the Bazooka. Still pays to check.
Quote:
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Although these look like good articles, so it works for me. Also, I heard (from The Fall of Berlin 1945) that captured 'fausts were definately used in house to house fighting. ...
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I remember reading somewhere that the commander of one US division gave orders that any captured panzerfaust were to be collected for redistribution and use by his troops. One of the airborne division I think but could be off on this.
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October 22nd, 2009, 04:18 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
The bazooka round is an outgrowth of the M10 rifle grenade designed to be fired from the .50 machinegun (using a blank cartridge). Procured in limited quantity starting in 1940 the M10 formed the basis for the bazooka round. US Army Captain Skinner was assigned to develop and investigate the use of rockets in war at the time and with limited funds started development of an antitank rocket by fitting a motor to the M10 grenade.
His counterpart in the US Navy was Lieutenant Uhl and the two had had some dealings. Lt. Uhl and Cptn Skinner arranged to work together on making and launching M10 grenades with the rocket motor assembly attached. Uhl came up with the tube launcher while Skinner devised a firing mechanism. A test rig was ready in March 1942 and testing took place at Aberdeen Proving Ground. Someone at the tests pointed out the similarity of this device in looks to comedian Bob Burn's insturment the "Bazooka" and a weapon was named.
The tests went well and the US Army quickly ordered 5,000 produced. The US Navy saw no future use for this particular weapon so they withdrew from the project.
E. G. Budd Co. was the rocket manufacturer. Hercules Powder, DuPont Chemical, Atlas Powder and, American Cyanamid provided the motor fuel and explosives for the warhead. GE Bridgeport CT manufactured the launcher (they produced 5,000 in 30 days to the initial order) and eventually produced 450,000 launchers.
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October 22nd, 2009, 05:24 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwd
I remember reading somewhere that the commander of one US division gave orders that any captured panzerfaust were to be collected for redistribution and use by his troops. One of the airborne division I think but could be off on this.
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Gavin. Max Hastings wrote about this in Armageddon.
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October 29th, 2009, 06:36 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
For most panzerfaust this meant you needed to be about 20 yards or less from your target to score a hit.
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October 30th, 2009, 04:09 AM
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Re: Canucks at play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Poop
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Oh that's excellent, it must have taken ages to dismantle that and cock them all again. But I imagine the effect was worth it even if it was under 40lbs of explosive in total.
IMHO it's just this kind of improvisation which gave our Allied ancestors the win.
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October 30th, 2009, 05:22 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
A veteran friend of mine who served in Company I, 13th Infantry Regiment, 8th Division told me when possible, his squad liked the smaller Faustpatrone, and collected them when they ran across them. The Faustpatrone was effective on log dug outs and machine gun nests, as well as, house to house fighting - blowing holes in walls etc. They also liked the German "potato masher" hand grenade for its TNT content. They were good for blowing doors off buildings, or whereever an explosion was needed with minimal fragmentation.
Greg C.
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"These are my credentials!"-Brig. Gen. Charles D.W. Canham [pointing to GI's of Company I, 13th Infantry Regiment, 8th Infantry Division] to General der Fallschirmjager Hermann Bernhard Ramcke, Crozon Peninsula September 19, 1944.
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October 31st, 2009, 10:29 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
The Panzerfaust fired hollow charge projectiles. These could - and would - be used as a substitute for HE projectiles by German AT guns or Sturmgeschütze. Even so, German infanty used their Panzerschrecks to provide their own indirect fire support. Panzerschreck was a derivative of captured US bazookas, but with 88 mm calibre, to which the US switched after some unpleasant encounters with the T-34 in Korea.
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November 5th, 2009, 11:53 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
I heard the Panzerfaust was a very inaccurate weapon, is this true?
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November 6th, 2009, 06:05 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
within the 50yeds minimum it was devastating and even beyond. remember this was a very close support weapon used by all German folk just not he military. think everyone has seen enough pics showing the training of old men, women and even children with this arm......and I do not mean pics of the Volkssturm either
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November 12th, 2009, 05:21 PM
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Re: Panzerfaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obergefreiter
... but with 88 mm calibre, to which the US switched after some unpleasant encounters with the T-34 in Korea.
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The US started production of the bigger bazookas in WWII but didn't issue them as they were thought to be unnecessary. The problems in Korea vs T-34 weren't so much a problem with the size of the bazooka's round as the fact that they were using very degraded WWII ammo.
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November 13th, 2009, 06:36 AM
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Re: Panzerfaust
There is a live fire bazooka penetration test that I have read. Basically, the bazooka's penetration performance was surprisingly bad against heavily sloped armor. 45mm plate sloped at 60 degrees like the T-34 would be invulnerable frontally to bazooka rounds, but if the slope was reduced to 30 degrees than armor plates doubled that thickness were easily penetrated. Against decent bazooka ammunition T-34 kills are quite possible, but preferably you do it from ambush positions.
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