I understand where you are coming from PzJgr. But there others who do not have a history like yours and are from other countries that would choose a orginization noted for its misdeeds and bad reputation. And are perfectly willing to fight against thier own country and countrymen. And certainly not just to fight the Soviet "Hordes". These posters obvioulsy have not been informed as well as some others here. Once again they are enamoured of "cool" uniforms and "glorious" battles along with the "German weapons are freaking sweet!" mentality. The former member Kommando was a prime example of the far extreme of this envy.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

JC i think you're right. Most of those guys are probably just some dorky teenagers who got their WWII knowledges from videogames and some fliks. Teh "cool uniforms and those sweeeet weapons".
Kommando is just a skinhead.
PzJgr i do understand your opinion hence of your heritage. Would't expect any otherewise.

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Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
If you can't eat it or hump it.
Piss on it and walk away

I won't be one of them.

Hmm, just to nit-pick a bit, it is well known that there were exchanges of personnel between the Totenkampfverbande and the Waffen-SS, so SOME could have had direct knowledge and participation, MOST didn't.

So your grandfather did not take part in what I said above, and your last sentence goes a long way to absolve him.

The Waffen-SS is a complex matter. Some, especially in the late part of the war were drafted into it (not volunteers), others belonged to ddifferent branches and found themselves transferred, while volunteers themselves went in for different possible reasons.

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I'm the one in mention about serving in the Gestapo... But did it ever occur to you people just because im Living in America, doesnt mean i was born here? granted i was, but im a second generation German american. i descended from germany, so I feel like i have a duty to stay by them. And if the allies are so good, then why be with them when you could fix the wrongs of the axis. thats what i had plannd t do, because i dont like teh axis's ideas, nor do i side with Nazis. But i would right the wrongs they had done, and fix their mistakes. Thats why I choose the SS and the Gestapo.. It has nothing to do with the ideas of the Nazi Party.

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So I'm about as North U.S as it gets but for the sake of argument let's say I am living in Virginia in the 1860's, should I fight for the Confederacy and fight for maintaining slavery just because I come form the south? I don't think so independent thought is always nice.

Foolish naiveness never got anyone anywhere.

Being from somewhere does not mean you should blindly swear your allegiance to it, and you are foolish if you think you would ''fix the Axis''. Please apply valid logic in the future.

Its naiveness my friend . And you are very astute.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

When it comes to certain subjects I must be .

Joining the Gestapo in order to fix it? Turn it into what, Mother Theresa's nunnery?

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I think people are forgetting that actually the answers people give to this kind of hypothetical are very different from what their actual answers would be. What we read as 'I would be in the SS' translates roughly as 'I would like to know what it was like to serve in the SS' which is in fact a very different proposition.

A dangerous precendent my friend

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There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

I think some of them make controversial statements to get a rise out of people.... others are just ignorant.... Youll notice id serve in the US ARMY 3rd RANGER BN,,,, I served in B/3/75th for many years... but i wana change that,,, the 3rd rangers were almost wiped out to a man at Cisterna Di littoria... No for me id prefer to serve As a fat general in charge of supplies. or Something cushy.. ive done the grunt thing for years it aint as cool as these kids would think... First time a lot of em saw a man get his legs blown off or heard incoming rocket or mortar fire theyd piss themselves... i figure why dignify stupidity... The fact the Waffenn SS commited heinous acts is common knowledge.. they choose to think its COOL... nothing cool about killing people period... but unarmed civilians to me thats almost cowardly.

Judging bu your conversation there, would it come to a suprise to you then that I am not even 15 yet?

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Wot???

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A quick side note: As a southern raised boy, I have to say that the war between the states is an entirely separate thing altogether as well. There was a lot more to it than just slavery. Simplifying what is popularly called "The American Civil War" as being about slavery is just like the prior over-simplification.



To the topic: Just because you stand by the fatherland doesn't mean you need to stand by the criminals. Gestapo were pretty hardcore - why not Waffen, Wehrmacht or Luftwaffe?

But the Gestapo and SS WERE the party.

That is a lot fixing that needed to be done.
Start with these:







You misinterpret my meaning, Stefan. Just because the US does something I disagree with, I'm not running off and offer my allegience to another nation. I'm staying here and feel confident that through our nation's form of government, I can help to resolve the issue. I'm staying here and fixing it.

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Best Regards,
JW

I understand this, but it was a simple example for a simple person.

11thairbornedivision- The SS WAS THE PARTY, you are obviously getting the SS and Wermacht mixed up, please look into it.

Read up on the Gestapo,



"The GESTAPO, through its great power of arrest and confinement to concentration camps without recourse to law, was the principal means for eliminating enemies of the Nazi regime. Diels, the former Deputy Chief of the GESTAPO under Goering, declared: "

"* * * From (1934) on the GESTAPO is responsible for, all deprivations of freedom and breaches of law and killings in the political field which took place without court verdict. Of primary importance among these was the shooting of numerous persons who had been committed to jails by the courts and then shot supposedly because of resistance. Many such cases were at that time published in the papers. For people guilty of immorality such illegal shootings became the rule. As for deprivation of freedom, there was no legal reason any more for protective custody orders after 1934, which had still been the case before that date, since from 1934 on the power of the totalitarian state was so stabilized that the arrest of a person for his own protection was only an excuse for arbitrary arrest--without court verdict and without legal measures for him. The terroristic measures, which. led to the development of the pureforce system and punished to an increasing degree each critical remark and each impulse of freedom with the concentration camp, took on more and more arbitrary and cruel forms. The GESTAPO became the symbol of the regime of force." (2460-PS) "

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

J.A., this is the sad thing about us. We tend to forget very quickly. I bet many of them if hey were asked to torture or kill someone would get sick, throw up wouldn't be able to do so, etc... As they should. That's why I think reenactors of SS groups should show everything in excrutiating detail. When parents start
complaining about the brutality of reinactments, we're on the right track. I bet the number of SS fan boys would be reduced drastically.


Cheers...

Jeez... what is it with the SS round here?

The SS was not a military organisation but a political one. As such it is divorced fron the Waffen-SS.

Also the SS is NOT the Nazi Party. Party membership was not a requirement to admitance.

Also try to remember that the Wehrmacht was as much responsible for war crimes and genocide as was the Waffen-SS.

And dont forget... There is the SS and there is the Waffen-SS... Try to distinguish between the two as it helps.

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

Here here! Sorry, I had to let my country boy side out for a tick.

Things are getting pretty mean in here.

thank you for the very few of you who have understood my point. -.- and also thank you, for whoever pointed this out, that the civil war was not all about slavery. i hate the idea of slavery, but im still proud of my ancestors, who served as confederates. The north at the time had been imposing taxes and ridicoulous laws, etc against us. as a matter of fact after the civil war, the freed slaves went up to the north....and they were refused of any jobs, homes, and familys...most of them came back into the south and gladly worked for their old masters. and for the record, i also do not feel olbigued to, oh what was it? "blindly pledge my alligance to the axis because im from germany, a country that was the backbone of the axis."and as it seems everytime i post you people seem to find something wrong in my post, ill start pointing out the things you could possiblyfind wrong in it.

1st: No, i would not be a confederate in the civil war.
2nd: No, im not proud of the fact my ancestors stood for slavery
3rd: Undoubtly, you'll start spouting laws at the time, make me look bad, and then say: "Do these look like ridicoulous laws to you?"

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For me its not just the subject of the SS.Waffen SS or even the Gestapo. Its why choose to be in the armed forces of the enemy of your own country that was bent on killing your own countrymen and to support a evil regime and an obvious madman?

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

Understood and agree. Knowing what we know now, how can anyone say that they would still join such an organization. Especially the seedy side.

BTW, many good points made here fellas. Glad to be part of such an intelligent band of rogues....................just don't let Kommando or the likes of him get a wind of it or else there be some kind of book burning.

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At least the one self avowed Nazi that was on this site(No longer with us now ) had stated he had agreed with the racial and political policies of the Nazis along with the murder and other atrocities they were known to have commited. Even with the killing of captured enemy soldiers and POWs.

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For the first time I have seen "History" at close quarters,and I know that its actual process is very different from what is presented to Posterity. - WWI General Max Hoffman.

there was a self avowed nazi?

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^ YES most SS soldiers joined out of Free will, opposed to many of the Wermacht who where drafted.
You claimed you are proud of your ancestors and are anti-Fascist and would join the Military for protecting your nation, fair enough. However the Gestapo where the political secret police who murdered anyone who opposed the Nazi regime in Germany from 1933-1945. They where not common soldiers fighting merely for their nation. The people serving in that branch where staunchly pro-Nazi Fascists and had millions of gallons of blood on their hands, many civilian. There is a big difference there.