If Operation Sealion actually happened, what German units do you think would have been used? and why?

Here are the units I think would have been employed, although I will not name numbered units I am not familiar with-so I do not err to badly.

The units I think would be used would be The Fallschirmjager forces that are intact. The reason for theit use, would be to capture key positions, and to cause as much trouble behind the British lines as they could. Also having the Luftwaffe keeping an umbrella of air cover for the ground forces.

All available Kriegsmarine ships used as artillery. Notably ships like: Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gniesenau, etc etc etc. Then to have all available U-boats as a line of protection for the fleets.

Next would be A few Infantry Divisions, since they have to take ground.

Most likely, the Germans would have had to have at least two armored divisions. Probably the 1st and 7th Panzer. This is because of their battle experiances, and the 7th for that and because of having Rommel as their commanding officer. These forces would be used for quick striking purposes, and as mobiloe artillery for the Infantry. They would be used as an awsome source of power.

Next would be 1-2 Motorized Infantry Divisions. This of course for the ability to transport Motorized Infantry over longer distances much faster. They couls also be used as "Fire Brigades" like the Waffen SS were used as in Russia.

Then they would have had to have various Artillery units like the 17th Artillery Division, and other Artillery Regiments. These would be used to beef up their foothold by creating a very strong defense.

Some Cavalry units would be used for recon purposes.

The Brandenburgers would be employed in specialist capacities. i.e. destroying communications, and sowing confusion behind the British front lines.

I do not list any Waffen SS units as being used initially because as it was mentioned that Hitler had a sorf of "soft spot" for the Brits. All that would have accomplished at that stage of the war, was to stiffen the brits resistance even more. Thats due to their growing bad reputations.

Hmm. That's a tough one. I never believed that Sea Lion could be successful, at least not without a long, drawn out conflict.

First, I'd imagine that there would be a sizable detachment of Fallschamjager commandos to possibly disable any remaining radar after a small force of Stukas gave it a shot. It would take AT LEAST TWO armored divisions to spearhead the invasion, but somehow I could see Rommel initially giving the plan a thumbs-down and not ready to commit his 7th division without further assessment.
Also, the Germans just could NOT rely on aircover - or at least consistently. Remember that the Luftwaffe did not enjoy a realistic amount of loiter time over England as there simply was not enough fuel to do so. This would be a problem.

With a force as mentioned above, the Brits would have been for one tough fight. I agree with you, I do not feel the Germans would have been successful but, they could have lost.

Still, you have to admit, that if the forces mentioned were used these guys were some of the German finest units. The Brits were in big trouble-especially after Dunkirk-where they left most of their heavier weapons, plus losing all those small arms.

The British government was not as organized as they should have been. They did not forsee that it was a possibility that the Germans could actually invade England.

Weapons and Vehicles production was in very low gear. Even many of the British units in England, did not have the proper amounts of ammo. I do think they would have been in some serious trouble at any rate.

Initial objective would be some airfields since air support is a key element in Blitzkrieg. So we are talking about the Luftwaffe (Fallshirmjagers). I agree about the use of the Kriegsmarine capitol ships. Airlift some infantry units. Amphib landing of 1 panzer and the 2 motorized divisions. With the great losses of the Brits in Dunkirk, resistance would be minimal from ground forces. Majority of the fight would be from the RAF and the Royal Navy. Once they moved inland, The Wehrmacht could have succeeded.

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Tschuss

I agree that the germans would have eventually captured england. It wass pointed out that the british lost alot of their guns at dunkirk. I dont think the british could have fought on much longer.

I forgot to ask, what are braendenburgers?

Correct me if I'm wrong but they were an elite unit used in special ops. Heavily armed but no larger than a battalion. About all I know about them.

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Tschuss

Hello Sergeant. Brandenburgers were the German Armys version of out future Green Berets. There was even a Panzergrenadier Division named Brandenburg.

They started out as a Construction Training Company, that eventually became Panzergrenadier Division Brandenburg.

On June 26 1942 they were known as: Training Regiment Brandenburg z.b.V. 800 and were qualified as being battle ready by the German High Command.

The unit was scattered for billeting in: Havel, Freiburg in Bresigau for regmt #1.
Rgmt #2 in Duren, and also in Weilburg/Baden.

Some Brandenburg Knights Cross REcipients are:
Oberleutnant Wilhelm Walther
Oblt Siegfried Graber
Leutnant Adrian von Foelkersam
Leutnant Ernst Prohaska
Oblt Hans-Wolfram Knaak
Leutnant Werner Kau
Oblt Erhard Lange
Oblt Karl-Heinz Oesterwitz + Oak Leaves as an Oberstleutnant.
Hauptmann Friedrich von Koenen
Hauptmann Siegfried Grabert + Oak Leaves
Oblt Max Wandrey + Oak Leaves as a Major.
Hauptmann Konrad Steidl
Oberst Erich von Bruchner
Oblt Eckart Afheldt
Oblt Erich Roseke
Leutnant Hellmut von Leipzig
Major Wilhelm Brockerhoff
Hauptmann Friedrich Muller-Rocholtz
Major Werner Voshage

The unit did not fight as a whole unit, they were used in scattered operations. They did commando type work.

Hope this helps you.

I was close

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Tschuss

Close is good.....

I think the Germans would have used the LSSAH and Das Reich Panzer Divisions for starters. The Fallschirmjagers would be used to capture key positions and gain ground for the Infantry.

The Luftwaffe would be used to keep a carpet of planes in the air, strafing bombings etc.

I would also see they would use at least 1 Gebirgsjager Division, sort of like a special forces type unit.

The Grossdeutschland Panzer units, since they were very elite.

The Kriegsmarine surface fleets, as a mobile artillery force.

German Kriegsmarine would have been tested too not so much in battle but could it supply the army. The english would not be foolish enough to attack the Germans during the day and the Germans would not have been foolish to try and continue ferries at night time across the channel.

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Out side is America!

The invasion of England would have been well possible, if properly planned. It would have started with building sufficient landing craft and support ships that could quickly drop armor on the english coast. I agree with units proposed by C. Evans. I would add certain local elements in the UK, such as the Irish, ethnic germans and right extremists.

The channel would have needed to be closed up by the german navy/submarines and covered by the Luftwaffe. The crossing would need to take place just hours before dawn. The invasion itself would be very costly, but once a bridgehead is established and armored units start pooring in, the fight is taken to the english.English forces are no match for the german armored units, at least not in 1940/1941. Landing should have taken place near Portsmouth i reckon. The cliffs of Dover must be avoided. First target should be London and then the industrial areas of England. Ireland could also be used in some role, by offering them Northern Ireland in return for instance.
Casualties would be high, very high even, and material losses enormous. German navy would take a heavy beating too. But, with england neutralised(by capitulation or a treaty in some form) and the government fleeing to canada, the war changes in many ways. North Africa is up for grabs(with all its oil reserves), USA will not enter the war, since they will have no allies in Western Europe and no means of staging any invasion in europe, since doing it directly from their own continent is not possible.
results from this : 1 front war against Russia, Italy that will stay in the axis, Turkey that might join the Axis, as might spain. Hitler could convince these countries by offering them huge territorial gains in north africa(spain) and the middle east(turkey) Japan will have less difficulty from the remaining british forces in India, since reinforcements are not possible anymore. English navy will be out of the war, and thus giving the axis supremacy on the Mediterrean and Atlantic Ocean. USA would need to divide their naval forces to protect both coasts properly, which in turn would make it easier for the Japanese.

So, invading england would have been well cheaper in losses, then fighting the brits for another 4 years.....

And, lets not forget that once there was no one to oppose the germans in Europe, many people in occupied countries would finally come to terms with their new "bosses" Life returns to normal and soon, more and more people in Europe will join the germans in their cause against bolsjewism.

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*** We shall not retreat, nor shall we surrender. If we cannot stay here alive, we shall stay here dead***

[This message has been edited by mart (edited 07 February 2001).]

Thats one hell of a well done post Mart, thanks!

Very well written...

thx. Its really just a continuance from your post, but thx anyway.

Does anyone ever play Axis & Allies or any other ww2 strategic game on their computers?
I am thinking : Close Combat 2-3-4-5 or Axis & Allies, Panzer General 3d assault, Or maybe even another game?

***Its not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, but the one that says: "To whom it may concern" ***

Thanks for the compliment! I have been playing a game on the computer called Eastern Front. Its by Talonsoft, and I bought it in Germany, so naturally the instructions are in Deutsch.

This is a fantastic game, and I understant that there is a part 2 and out and maybe a part 3? This is the only computer disk game I own but, I have enjoyed it greatly.

The game is easy to play, has great sound and animation. A game usually lasts about 2 hrs. I am looking at a future time to get more WW2 or military typs games like this one.

Close Combat series. I gave up on Panzer General.

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"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."

SS Panzer divisions:-
1st SS 'Leibstandarte'
2nd SS 'Das Reich'
9th SS 'Hohenstaufen'

Luftwaffe divisions:-
Erpobunsgruppe 210
JG51 'Molders'
JG52 'Grunherz'

Heer Infantry:-
352nd Infantry
316th Infantry

Kriegsmarine:-
U-Boats:-
U-552 (Topp)
U-99 (Kretschmer)
U-123 (Hardegen

Prinz Eugen
Bismarck
Gneisenau
Scharnhorst

Why you ask?
SS for instilling terror in the populace
Luftawffe for scare tactics
Heer units-able commanders, aggressive members
U-Boats for cutting off supplies coming from Plymouth and Weymouth
Big ships for fire support, fighting off RAF sorties, morale breaking and fighting off the Home Fleet

__________________
"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett

Pzknacker, great choices, and I would have to add:

U-181 (Wolfgang Luth) and (Kurt Freiwald) and besides being the U-boat witht the most successes--not tonnage, but ships sunk, but also the uboat with the most KC and DKG serving together at the same time. 4 KCs on board at the same time: Luth, Limbach, Landefermann, and the last name escapes me at the moment. Plus because all the surviving crew members are very good friends of mine.

This one is for you Herrn Kaiser, Hille, Bartussek, Muller, Pfeiffer, Schmidt, Hawran (R.I.P) Trenn, Dick (R.I.P) Pfeffer, Giese,

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Churchill was quite aware of the danger from invasion but, as he told Lord Beaverbrook in June 1940, he doubted whether the Germans could mount it successfully - "I think they might recoil eastwards" he said. In the event Churchill was right.
Although the Germans had used paratroopers to some effect in the Netherlands, as Crete was to show they would not necessarily have been effective in a larger operation. I'm sure they would have been used, but the Germans would have learned their lesson a little earlier.
As far as the German Kriegsmarine is concerned they simply were not up to the job they would have been set. All the RN had to do was destroy a goodly proportion of the German landing craft. Many of the troops that Hitler could send would have simply ended up at the bottom of the Channel. With the Russians breathing down his neck this was simply not an option for Hitler. His forces lacked an overall strategic dimension (as the failure to cross 20 miles of open water graphically demonstrated)and were designed for ground operations in mainland Europe. It is interesting that, while announcing to the worlds press that they were producing larger numbers of aircraft for attacking England, Hitler had secretly ordered a vast expansion of his tank forces for continental use.
Hitler is said to have told Keitel "I have no intention of taking such a risk", while preparations for Barborossa were ordered to be disguised as moves against Britain. As A.J.P.Taylor said "As an operation of war Sealion did not exist" and, as the German High Command joked at the time "Sealion was contemplated but never planned".

Chris Ray.

I agree with you on this also. I have seen photos of some of the hodge-podge "landingcraft" that the Germans would have had to ues in Op Seelion.

The Germans altered a few ships to have landing ramps installed in the Bow os some ships, by cutting a portion of the Bow off, and making a ramp, just like castles had.

In photos I have seen were also some so-called landingcraft, that had Luftwaffe Fighter and Bomber engines mounted onto flatboats, and had the propellers on them for the "push" they would have needed.

Not as a what if, look below.

The R.A.F. would have slaughtered the Germans in the channel, even if the Luftwaffe mostly controlled the skies.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.