I know that this is a wild one to post but....

I think Hitler would have gone to the Bavarian Region. It is full of hills and mountains and one could hide there easily. Most likely, I think he would have ended up near the Ober Ammergau area, as there are many caves one could hide in and live in. He could have created another Headquarters there and possibly created a "real" Wehrwolf situation. He also still had many diehard fanatics willing to give their lives for him.

What do you think? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 25 June 2001: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

And Carl......what would you say if I told you that there was a fairly good chance that the fuhrer did not die in Berlin ? that it could of been his cousin ! There is very strong proof, as there was a major cover-up/disguise because Stalin was not told the truth once the Battle of Berlin had concluded. An ardent nazi named Heinrich Müller developed the switch and der fuhrer left the last couple of days for south america. H. Müller went on to work for our lovely CIA.

E.

If he had left, the only place to go would be Bavaria. South America would be the alternative but I do not believe he would be happy in exile. I think he did take his life in the bunker. He knew he had nowhere else to go. My opinion.

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American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

Dear Erich: I would not be surprised if that happened at all, now that some things are coming to light-after all these years

(Still as a What-if)
I think the mountain air would have helped him recover a bit from the poisoning he had through the care of Dr. Morell--what a freak he had to have been.

I can imagine Der Fuhrer, living in a cave, since he was used to closed in places--Das Bunker.

I don't know, but I think this would make for one heck of a good fiction story to publish??

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Dear Erich: I would not be surprised if that happened at all, now that some things are coming to light-after all these years

(Still as a What-if)
I think the mountain air would have helped him recover a bit from the poisoning he had through the care of Dr. Morell--what a freak he had to have been.

I can imagine Der Fuhrer, living in a cave, since he was used to closed in places--Das Bunker.

I don't know, but I think this would make for one heck of a good fiction story to publish??

I too believe he offed himself, but only because of what we have seen from the winners viewpoint, and of course as a matter of honor, the Germans im sure would have created as much confusion on this as possible--leaving room for Hitler to (if he was busy escaping at that time) to get further away from the "hot spots" and make his way to more friendlier territory because more attention would have been focused iat Berlin--instead of bavaria.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

No doubt it could of happened, I think Hitler had no intention of even his body being captured and possibly displayed in Moscow. To me the story is very feasible as Berlin still was an open city from the air almost to the day of capitulation. The Soviet air force never did have full control of the air-space during April and May of 45.
There are several stories that have circulated over the last 12 or so years on how he might have escaped........
Surely the mountains would of been the logical choice since the Oberbayern und Sud-Tirol areas were the last to fall. And I don;t even think you can say that. many an SS and Wehrmacht trooper hid out in the Alpen zone, some giving themselves up and one Luftwaffe vet walked all the way through Austria to his home with a designated route he had come up with. Oberammergau, Ettal and the Füssen/Schwangau and Austrian hills are full caves, mines and hidden canyons. it would of been perfect, and with local farmers as his/their food sources and information gatherers it well could of been made.



E.

Well said Erich, and you sound like you too have visited the area. I tell you that I agree with you, the place is absolutely a dream of a place to live or to hide in ala D.B.Cooper.

Hitler might not have many Waffen ss there--unless from the Cavalry or Mountain Divisions. More than likely, he would have had the Gebirgs-or what was left of them-transferred there.

I think Ober Ammergau would have been perfect, because in many areas it is so steep, you could not get tanks up there along with all the trucks and other vehicles. One reason was there is a sorrowful lack of roads capable of that kind of traffic, even though wheeled vehicles could make it, but they wouls all be very vunerable to ambushes from anywhere and i dont think the commie high command would care for those kind of losses, but then-who knows?

In Ober Ammergau, Hitler would have been well hidden anywhere-specially in that area. If you have been there and gone on a hiking trip like I did, you would be absolutely amazed at what the Germans could have done into making this a "Redoubt".

Susanne and I made our way up and down hills, down to the river where a large portion of caves are at. The Russkies would have had a very tough time indeed--and come to think of it, they would not even be there, that was British and US territory--I had forgotten about that.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

i think Hitler killed himself in the Bunker
Had he escaped i'm sure he new there really wasn't anywhere, where the allies or well his enemies couldn't catch up to him.
He was killed in the Bunker...and yes he didn't even want his body on display which is why he ordered his body burned beyond recognition.
Later on the body was taken for autopsy where it was identified as Hitlers from his dental records.
Plus the autopsy showed that the body had 1 testicle.
seems proof to me.
All sign point to Hitler dieing in the bunker, facts support it, and it makes total sense that hitler would do that.

[ 26 June 2001: Message edited by: Ron ]

I totally agree with you Ron, because of all the presented facts. As Erich says, apparently we still have much more to learn from other sources of unreleased info?

This being a what if? though, is an "alomst anything goes" deal--like the game show from the early 1970's--anyone remember that??? [img]smile.gif[/img]I do and I remember loving to watch it too Soupy Sales was its host I believe, and we got to see alive taping of it here in Corpus Christi.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Ron :

His dental records were falsified and the one testicular chap was his cousin who was drugged and walked around in the adjacent courtyard of the bunker daily. H. Müller made a swap by one of the two accessible doors to the bunker with the cousin and Hitler was wisked away via small Fiesler Storch a/c, again remember that the Soviets not US/British a/c did not have full control of the skies.
I received an intersting mail from a Austrian friend last year and it's states....
Tatsäschlich hat die leibliche Schwester Hitlers. Paula, gleich nach seinem Tod versucht, sein Erbe zu beanspruchen. Dafür hätte sie jedoch einem Erbschein gebraucht und den gab es nur bei Vorlage eines Totenscheins.
Adolf Hitler wurde aber erst am 3 Dezember 1956 ! offiziell für tot erklärt.

Say what you will. Anything was possible during the last week of the ETO !

E.

Erich, is all this in Benders books????

I think I will go for a bit and see what I can find on this possibility--see you later whether I get anywhere or not with this.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Yes and then some!

E.

Erich, is there a way you can scan some of what is said in Benders book and post it here? I most likely will not have the funds available for several months to come--to buy one of his expensive books.

Or if you can remember more detail as to what was said..

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Carl :

The scanner is on the birthday list for this August, but at this time no I cannot. An abbreviated form is in one of Benders Military advisor magazines, which I will have to dig out and surely I can broadcast the info here. I'll check next week.
You may be very interested in what it says.

E.

Dear Erich: daddio, definately looking forward to reading what you can put here.

For the last 3-4 months--99% of what I have read is just differing accounts on the last days of the war, and of Berlin and of Hitler. I'm always looking for more on that subject. I just got a book from Roland Fogt-which I will read when I get finished with 3 other books. The next one I will be starting is Vol 1 of 2, which is on the Battle of the Bulge. Vol 1 is through the Germans eyes and this is the book I tld you about that has the 2 chapters on the 5th Fchjgr div.

Arrrrruuuu, I can't wait to get started

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

i find it hard to belive that hitler escaped from Berlin when it was surrounded...then was able to make it to an airport.
and then live in the mountains as a mountain man for years!
What i use as proof that he died is that he gave up his reich! He make Dornitz the second Fuehur (i know spelling must be off lol)
Anyway...if he had plans of living and was trying to sustain a following, why would he give up all the power he had! If he planned on living why would he strip himself of power. It is right up Hitlers ally to kill himself in the face of discrace. And i have no idea why someone would say anything could happen during the last week of the war?!
Sorry for the sarcasm but to say that hitler escaped and lived out his days in the mountains of germny...is like saying that both JFK and Marylin Monroa faked thir deaths in order to live together in a shak on the banks of the patomic!

Dear Ron, Its YOUR right to express what you feel, and I enjoy reading them. I have to agree with both you and Erich, because there was always a possibility that he could escape (by air), even to the last day. Ritter von Greim and Hanna Reich escaped by flying off the Kurfurstendamm? I believe, it was the wide street that the Brandenburg Gate is on. At any rate, the street was used as an emergency runway. This happened when the Lemon trees were cut down, and the Brass lampposts were removed (to the great pistivity of Albert Speer, who, in Germanys greatest hour of need, tried to get that project axed by complaining to Hitler hisself), what a stupid childish thing for a man of his stature to do, and at the worst time possible. Needless to say Herr Speer lost that political battle.

All im trying to say though, is that it was a possibility for Hitler to leave, not that I believe he did, but, knowing all the things that the average citizen doesnt know, it does leave room for the possibility. There is no telling what all we will never know about the events which happened 56 years, 2 months and 2 days ago. Plus the events of 56 years 2 months and 10-11 days ago.

What I was trying to get though, is an opinion of what could have happened, and where he could have gone had he left Berlin.

I think this thing could make for a great read as a novel. Just imagine it, a book starting off on the very last 10 or so days of the war in Hitlers bunker in Berlin. Imagine the fluff of hie comrades trying to convince him to leave whilst he had the chance. Finally they convince him to scram with the Russians only 100 meters away, and through the barrages and shellbursts, Hitler and Greim, and Hanna Reich, make it to the craft and take off with Russian gunfire hitting the aircraft, but they manage to escape.

While in the air, they meet up with a squadron of FW-190s as protection against Yak fighters and they make their way to safety in the last redoubt in Bavaria, with the loss of most of the screening fighter force.

Wouldnt you think this could be agreat fictiuon story? I do--or is it, that maybe im obsessed with the last days of the war??

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I believe Hitler would have gone to Baveria. I have read that Otto Skorezany(I think thats the correct spelling)was preparing an alpine fortest in Baveria.

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"Front leaning rest position"
"Move"
"In cadence, exercise....1, 2, 3" (My favorite thing to hear at 5 in the morning.)

Guys :

I never said that Hitler was whisked away to Bayern. The simple fact is this : During the last week of fighting in Berlin around the Führer-bunker and the Reichstag the areas were not totally surrounded as persumed. There were plenty of tunnels available for escape routes, and many did escape the Russians. There was no airport to take A.H. A Fiesler Storch could easily have landed in the streets if there were not too much rubble. The fact is, is that it did in fact happen. Could Adolf have escaped before the end. To me it is still a very strong possibility, or we can believe the old news that he shot himself and was burned and the witnesses were there to testify to the Russian soldiers to keep from getting a bullet in the head. Whatever, Carl through out a what if, and I thought we could all pitch in with ideas and possibly some sound facts. i've brought out obviously a few things that go against the grain and you all know what, that's great by me ! This is the way gentlemen that we learn. As I have said in other postings on this forums board, much of what was written upwards of 25 years ago was not based on hard cold evidence. This is for fact concerning Luftwafe items. One reason an English friend and I started up our own site, and pleasingly the German and US bomber crew vets love it........enough of my rant.

E.