What if Germany had won the war? To be more precise - what would your criteria be in order to say that Germany had won and what kind of world would have been the result?

Would defeating Russia have been enough to force Britain and the US into a negotiated peace? If not, then how would Britain and the US have proceeded? If invading Britain and knocking it out of the war was also needed, what would the US have done? Could the war have developed in such a way as to end up with a Cold War between the US and Germany? Could the US have beaten Japan alone if the Japanese had received ever growing help from Germany?

Chris Ray

For Germany to win WW2, Germany would have had to invade Britain and Ireland, not declare war on the USA, then invade the USSR, assuming German defeated then USSR then it would be the USA Germany and possibly Japan in what might eventually become a 'Cold War'

Or Germany leaves Britain, but fending her off, leaves the USSR (for now), this would keep Germany's armies at full strength. Germany could then wait for an Allied invasion, which would be easily defeated it it would remain the size as it was for D-Day, this would leave Germany in a commanding position when the invasion is defeated, Germany could then invade Spain and Portugal, then Gibralter (effectively cutting off the med) German could then invade North Africa/Malta. Once the conquest is complete (which would be easy considering the huge numbers of men and equipment that Germany posseses). With All of Europe and Northern Africa under Germany's control it would now be 'safe' to invade the Soviet Union, Germany would stand a much greater chance now because she is in a much stronger position. If successful Germany would be in a very strong position and would ahve the potential of becoming more powerful than the USA. A 'Cold War' would surely ensure once America comes to an agreement with Germany. This would give America the chance to defeat Japan. Leaving the tow Superpowers to fight it out 'Cold War style'. Hopes this helps

__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
Homer Simpson

Don't forget that the russian were planning on invading the west. So when the Germans would have their forces deployed somewhere else the Russians would attack.

__________________
"Front leaning rest position"
"Move"
"In cadence, exercise....1, 2, 3" (My favorite thing to hear at 5 in the morning.)

I agree, they should not have declared war on the USA, should have concentrated most of their forces on Russia, left Africa alone as well as Crete.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I think that russia should would need to be the main focus of the war before taking on anyone else. With russia gone noone but the U.S would be able to take on Germany and I don't think the U.S would if Russia was gone.

__________________
"Front leaning rest position"
"Move"
"In cadence, exercise....1, 2, 3" (My favorite thing to hear at 5 in the morning.)

I too, doubt the USA would try to take on Germany had they beat Russia.

Its like, we knew some of the evils that the Russians were doing all through the cold war, but we never fought them because of it.

One wonders what could have been, had we done so. Most likely a war in which nukes would have been used. Thats probably the main reason why, no one would have tried to fight them, being nukes as a deterrent for war, except with nations that didnt have them in their arsenals.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

If Germany did not declare war on the US i wonder if the US would have declared war on Germany after Pearl Harbor...and if not i'm sure in a short time a lusitania incident would occur or something and then it would be Great Britian and US against the Germans.
Maybe (according to this "what if") a war with germany came later on, like say 43 then the war in the pacific prob would have ended earlier....making it possible for the US to concentrate totally in europe. Then who knows who would be winning the war by that point...but it doesn't matter because even if a stalemate occured eventually it would be broken by the US and Great Britian developing the atom bomb which i'm sure would have been used. once that stage was reached i would put my money on the allies.
I also think that Germany would not be able to defeat the west before the "bomb" was developed and used.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron:
[QB]If Germany did not declare war on the US i wonder if the US would have declared war on Germany after Pearl Harbor...and if not i'm sure in a short time a lusitania incident would occur or something and then it would be Great Britian and US against the Germans.[b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am sure that as Anerica was extremly isolationist and only a direct threat against the United States would result in war. The USA would not start a war, this I am very sure of.

__________________
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!"
Homer Simpson

It would be too difficult for me to think we could beat the Japanese by 1943, because even after the 2 A-bombs were dropped, they still had over 4 million soldiers in the field, but in a what if? anythings possible.

__________________
Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I believe German polticial and cultural feelings would have made them attack the French "vermin" ( ) first. In doing so they would have had to maintain the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and enforce it in the east by maintaining a strong defensive presence there. Then, once France was dealt with, they could fortify that position and possibly even install a puppet in Spain, which would have been logical.

Then, as done in WWI and the Schifflen(sp?) Plan, they could swing the bulk of the German Army back around and drive on Russia. The main difference would be that they would have to wait to conquer one enemy before attacking the other. Which, IMO, was the tactical end of the war for the Germans. I say that because once you open yourself up on two widespread flanks such as Germany did, victory is almost near impossible to attain.

Had they stuck by a strategy similar to the Schifflen Plan, I believe they would have won, or at least came a lot closer to it.

By the time the Japanese problem began in the Pacific, Russia had become a non-combatant. Japan's bigest mistake was attacking Pearl Harbor and drawing the US into the war. Had they not done that, today's China would most likely be under Japanese suzerinity.

__________________
"As long as the Arabs continue to fight amongst themselves, forever will they be a weak and arrogant people."
-T.E. Lawrence

watch the movie Fatherland with Rutger Hauer. I reckon that movie comes pretty close to how it would have been.

__________________
*** We shall not retreat, nor shall we surrender. If we cannot stay here alive, we shall stay here dead***

I read a book of F.W. Winterbotham ("Enigma, Hitler´s Secret") and I think he knew very well the German High Command as spy, to know that Hitler's thoughts were "Three great nations in the world, the Third Reich, the British Empire and USA", in his words if I well remember. So, I think that he wanted to
recover the ancient German frontier and to eliminate the Soviet Communism, he used the wins at France, Low Countries and Norway to negociate in better conditions with Allied.

__________________
http://www.worldwar.hpg.com.br