The one common thread that all of these war games seems to produce, is that the Germans could indeed land their troops wherever they chose.

The main problem is one of logistics- the act of sustaining their forces in the field once the battle is indeed joined.

Once the Germans are ashore, how can they re-inforce and re-supply those troops, in the face of total commitment by the RAF and Royal Navy? Everything that the German troops need has to come from France.

There would be no English seaports captured intact, much like what happened in France in 1944. This was made so much the worse as the Germans had few, actual landing craft and would be relying largely on ad-hoc amphibious vessels of questionable value and merchant ships dragooned for that purpose.

These ships would all be "Easy Meat" in a "Target-Rich Environment" for the Royal Navy Destroyers and Cruisers.

The Kriegsmarine simply did not have the wherewithal to support such a major invasion over so large a body of unpredictable and weather-swept, English Channel water.

The Luftwaffe could not be everywhere at once, supporting the invasion, while bombing the British airfields, "softening-up" strategic targets, plus targets of opportunity and lastly, attempting to interdict the Royal Navy in its anti-invasion operations.

Lastly, once a lodgement was made along the coast, the Germans would be facing ever increasing numbers of British Army Troops, using their excellent, interior lines of communication to reach the invasion beaches, to counter and finally destroy the German threat.

One of the things that I have never heard anyone advance here is the possibility of using an invasion fascade to lure the Royal Navy and the RAF into battle.

Suppose the Germans landed airborne forces and a first wave of amphibious forces. They then commit the Luftwaffe and the Kreigsmarine to destroying the responding planes and ships. Boats cross the channel pulling barges, but barges full of decoys. The only real troops are the first wave and the paratroopers. Germany commits to fully supplying this smaller force so that they can contiue to harry the defenders and make them believe the invasion is on for real. They also commit to bringing them back if at all possible. Everyone in England scrambles to rise to the challenge. The Royal Navy rushes everything they have to the defense. Now the target-rich environment is in the other player's court. Mines and torpedo boats as well as planes take their toll on the Royal Navy. Goering gets his wish of having the RAF come up to fight because they believe this is a last ditch effort to save their homes. The divisions in place around the country scramble to respond revealling their real strength. Could this have been a workable scheme to draw out the British forces and damage or cripple them?

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Whoops [img]redface.gif[/img]

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Now that's a very very interesting scenario!

Wonder whether this idea has occured in Hitler's plan ? Or perhaps Hitler didnt want to trick or lure the British, simply he wants to destroy them.

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The Two World Wars

bigiceman,

Its an expensive way of finding out British reactions.

Maybe purely the dummy sea landing could have been as effective.

Most people seem to concentrate on the problems of the Germans, without considering that the Brits would have have there own problems. There is also the habit of overestimating the abilities of the British Army. You hear of the Australian Division, really 1 trained Bde and another made up of reos and excess suppport troops, The Enzeds were also not a full Division.

I would bring your example back to a dummy sea landing and a small (battalion?) airborne landing using Brandenburgers and scatter them all over Southern England. Bring the RN & RAF to battle by continual fighter sweeps and low level Ju88 raids on airfields, especially those actually used by Fighter Command. A "fleet" setting out from Norway/Denmark would be good as well.

But the Allies had 3-4 years to work out FORTITUDE but we need the Germans to do the same in a month or two.

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Whe're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ - 6 Australian Infantry Div, Bardia January 1941

A divine wind destroyed Kubla Khans invasion of Japan. The Spanish Armada was destroyed (mostly) by weather. I think the Brits knew who their best friend was.
I'd pull up a lawnchair, grab a couple of pints and watch them be "dashed" upon the rocks.
Then I'd shoot the survivors.
If it weren't for Mulberries Overlord would have failed. I believe in a soon after storm some of them were.
After that the advance all but halted until Antwerp could be taken. Like being on a leash, woof woof.
Naples harbor was destroyed and filled with scuttled ships because the Germans knew that without re-supply you are doomed.
Without re-supply you are a "come as you are" army.
Enough perhaps to take a beach, and possibly the first battle, but without re-supply you are dead.
There in the problem lies. Getting re-supplied, and keeping those supplies comming. All this through hostile weather, and hostile fire.

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There's one way to find out if a man is honest-ask him. If he says "Yes", you know he's a crook. Groucho Marx

Ah, but the Allies had an answer for that; in particular the Americans and to a lessor extent the British. They assembled teams skilled in naval salvage, harbor clearance, mine clearance and, harbor construction and put them to use right from the start of their involvement in the war.
In the case of Naples harbor it took USN salvage crews a mere 14 days to clear 8 berths for use. Just over two months later the entire harbor was cleared and 30 berths (more than existed prior the war) were available.
For the Normandy campaign the same thing occured. The Wehrmacht thought that both Cherbourg and LeHarve were rended useless as ports for the duration of the war. Yet, the US moved in at Cherbourg and had it partially cleared in less than 60 days and operational in under 100. The same held true with LeHarve. In both cases, the salvage crews commented that the German demolitions were amateurish in quality showing no real understanding of naval salvage in particular. For example at Cherbourg the Germans sank a very old and very unstable French submarine lift ship in the harbor entrance. It was in such poor condition it had to be cut up and lifted in chunks. Had they taken several other vessels available and piled them on top of this one sinking the lot it would have plugged the harbor for many months. Instead, they were satisfied with the one vessel, sinking the rest in other locations.

I've seen the pictures of American talent in this area. The piers built on to and out of sunken ships.
I didn't mean to suggest the Americans would be stimied by this act of scorched earth policy. I only meant to stress the point of "supply" and the retardation/disruption of it being important to any army. Especially during an invasion.
I've heard what wins wars is the 3-Bs
Beans
Bullets
Benzene

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There's one way to find out if a man is honest-ask him. If he says "Yes", you know he's a crook. Groucho Marx

Brittany seems to be a bit too far away from the front though.

The Red ball express

The Red Ball Express lasted only three months from August 25 to November 16, 1944. But with out the Red Ball Express the campaign in the European Theater would have dragged on for years.

After the first month of operation, the Red Ball Express wore out 40,000 tires Most where retread and came back glued and taped together. The biggest problem was carelessly thrown away ration tins that littered the highways.

http://www.fatherryan.org/blackmilitary/redball.htm


Antwerp : On November 28th (!!), the first large boats used the port. By December 14th, 19,000 tons of supplies were being unloaded at Antwerp each day.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...ld_war_two.htm

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I have read a quote somewhere about logistics, "Amateurs talk tactics, Professionals talk logistics." That is what it really is all about isn't it? Without all the logistical planning that went into Operation Overlord it could not have succeeded. Did Germany put that much logistical planning into any of its major operations?

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Actually probably not..I read somewhere that the Germans would have run out of several sorts of artillery ammo if the war in the West 1940 had lasted any longer...

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