In early February 1943, the battle for the strategic city of Stalingrad had ended in a devastating German defeat. To make up for this demoralising loss and to halt the Soviets latest winter offensive, Hitler had ordered a vigorous counterattack.


"Leibstandarte" and "Das Reich" participated in the defense of Kharkov, along with the elite Army division "Grossdeutschland" supported by three weak infantry divisions. This handful of divisions was attacked by four Soviet armies, but under command of Armeeabteilung Lanz, was able to hold the city for two weeks. On 14 February, 1943 the SS-Panzerkorps and the rest of Armeeabteilung Lanz withdrew from Kharkov under disputed circumstances that involved Hausser and his violation of a direct order from Hitler.

Later on we know how things turned. But what if Hausser would have stayed in Kharkov. What if there was another "Stalingrad" and such elite formations like LAH, Das Reich and Grossdeutschland were lost? Even if the Russians were at the end of the long supply line?

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Any ideas?



I myself think that the whole southern army group would have collapsed, and the best the Germans could have done would be to trasfer the troops from Northern and Middle army groups to south as well at the same time pulling the front backwards in those areas...heaven knows how far. Luckily the Russians had battled since middle-November so that might give Germans a break in the fighting, but if their elite divisions would have been smashed then making any counter attacks would be almost impossible, as already with the SS divisions counted the Russians had an enormous force , I think 5-7:1 in men...





PS. Manstein’s counteroffensive destroyed or severely damaged four Soviet armies and regained much of the territory lost in January.

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This is very interesting, Kai. The 3rd battle of Khárkov ( we have to specify which one ) was the last German victory of the war and the very perfect example of Von Manstein's genious skills. He cleraly saw the Russian getting weaker and weaker, so he allowed them to take the city. Then he counterattacked and smashed them. That happened when Hitler gave him free hands. There was not a possibility of another Stalingrad because Von Manstein would have ordered an immediate withdraw; and it was easy because of the constant Russian weakening.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Friedrich :

I am wondering what a victory constitutes ? Attack or defence ?

if we look at the east front for example there were many defensive missions that kept the Soviets away and they had to redirect their forces to go around and through weaker opposition.
Köwel in 1944 defended by the 5th SS Pz Div Wiking is one. The the multi supported ops against the Soviets at Ebenröhde on the border of Ost Prussia in October 1944 which blew the Soviets out until January of 1945 the Soviets losing over 400 tanks.

E

Just to add a different angle to this thread,i have interviewed a number of Waffen SS Veterans of the Feb/March 1943 Battle of Kharkov who were quite resentful of Mansteins claims to glory and Victory at Kharkov,particulary later in his memoirs.

They feel that without the descision by Paul Hausser to withdraw the SS Panzer Korps from the city,against orders,the following regrouping and successful counter attack would never have happened as 3 of the Premier Waffen SS Divisions would have been lost in "Defending the City to the Last man", a la Stalingrad.

Paul [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Nikto ne Zabyt . Nichto ne Zabyto.

Let no one forget . Let nothing be forgotten.

One What-if that´s not dealing about the German victory...

Any ideas to this one? Hitler demanded that the troops should stay in Kharkov and make it a fortress. This way however they would have been cut off and I think there was no reserves to open the route back. So unless these troops fought themselves free and back to the own lines they would be surrounded in the city and crushed within two-three weeks. And no Manstein´s back hand slap!

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