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What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old October 17th, 2003, 05:19 PM
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At least Hitler made a huge gamble out of it like in several similar situations in the 1930´s.

Earlier postings on this thread:

But Germany would not back down. At 6:30 p. m., through Lieutenant-General Muff, the German military attaché at Vienna, Hitler said 200,000 German troops would cross Austrian frontier unless:

Firstly: von Schuschnigg resigned;
Secondly: Seyss-Inquart assumed Chancellorship;
Thirdly: Nazis were appointed to at least two-thirds of the new Cabinet;
Fourthly: full and unrestricted liberty be granted Austrian Nazi party;
Fifthly: the Austrian Legion of Nazi exiles be readmitted to Austria.
It appeared that Austria had lost. At 7:30 PM, Schuschnigg resigned his office saying

"This day has placed us in a tragic and decisive situation...So I take leave of the Austrian people with a German word of farewell uttered from the depth of my heart: God Protect Austria!"
Almost immediately after, Dr. Arthur Seyss-Inquart requests Germany send troops into Austria since the arming of the Socialists had reached an alarming degree. He appealed for peace and order and nonresistance to the German Army saying:

". . . any opposition to the German Army should it enter Austria is completely out of the question–out of the question too for the executive, whose most important duty is the maintenance of peace and order in this country."
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Old October 18th, 2003, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kai-Petri:
Almost immediately after, Dr. Arthur Seyss-Inquart requests Germany send troops into Austria since the arming of the Socialists had reached an alarming degree. He appealed for peace and order and nonresistance to the German Army saying:

". . . any opposition to the German Army should it enter Austria is completely out of the question–out of the question too for the executive, whose most important duty is the maintenance of peace and order in this country."
Seyß-Inquart never demanded military help from Germany. Göring told him to do so, but then he decided to fake the telegram instead not to lose any more time.
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Old October 19th, 2003, 10:05 AM
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Thanx for the correction KnightMove!
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Old October 19th, 2003, 12:08 PM
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Ywc. On Göring's demand, the telegram was set up by Reichspostminister Ohnesorge. Probably the only interesting document this guy left. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old December 4th, 2003, 04:41 PM
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I have studied now several material reporting discrimination, outlawing, torturing of people who voted 'NO' on the Anschluss. Unfortunately, I didn't find anything in English.

However I definitely confirm that a true democratic plebiscite in a still independent Austria is not sure to have a majority to support joining Germany. Many Austrians were against Nazism, or had become victim of Nazi terror; and loyalty to the leadership, which later helped Hitler a great deal, would yet have been in favor of Schuschnigg and independent Austria.
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Old December 4th, 2003, 05:31 PM
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That might be true, Knight. Let's just remember that Heydrich arrested some 70.000 people or so in the first days of the invasion. But even if the results were manipulated and even if many Austrians were menaced by nazi terror system. There was an average acceptance of it. There were no partisans, no open opposition. Very much like Germany, even if a little more than 50% didn't vote for Hitler, no one said a thing and after some years, 95% - forced or not - accepted him.
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Old December 5th, 2003, 09:35 AM
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And wasn´t Hitler´s first idea of Austria to make it a state outside of the Reich but when he was warmly welcomed he was so taken by it that he decided to make Austria part of the bigger Germany? I read something like this once.
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Old December 10th, 2003, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kai-Petri:
And wasn´t Hitler´s first idea of Austria to make it a state outside of the Reich but when he was warmly welcomed he was so taken by it that he decided to make Austria part of the bigger Germany? I read something like this once.
Hitler definitely always wanted to make Austria a part of the Reich (can you give me one logical reason why letting it be a separate country?). His original plan however was a "cold fusion" of the Reich and a nazi-turned Austria. When Schuschnigg planned his plebiscite as last try, Hitler had to accelerate things...

That Hitler would have decided to merge Austria into the Reich not before the invasion running, is utter nonsense.
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Old December 10th, 2003, 03:14 PM
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This is not plainly my idea.

Whether it is true or not I cannot say. But I´ve read it in one book and as well I found this in the net:

"On the balcony of Linz Town Hall he made a decision: he would not establish a tame government in Vienna, instead he would incorporate Austria in the Reich."

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/Austria.html
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Old December 11th, 2003, 01:24 AM
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I see, but this is simply wrong. The incorporation of Austria was integral part of Hitler's plans and is documented, at latest, in the Hoßbach protocols at the end of 1937.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 07:38 PM
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Well, I thought about it, maybe there is a point of truth:

First Hitler wanted Austrian nazis to take over the country, and then let them ask to join the Reich. The lack of international resistance, and possibly the cheering masses, made him change his mind - and he did it without any more delay. But I think he made up this decision before the invasion, not after.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 10:54 PM
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Seems according to one author ( that I found ) that Hitler wanted to wait until April ( new voting ?!) until the final Anschluss but as he noted the people being cheerful about him entering the country he decided to make it happen immediately (?!)Could explai the whole dilemma?


Anyway, some logical reasons why he did not want to include Austria :

1. Hate towards Vienna ( not getting into university )

2. In 1919 ( and since )the Austrians (German origin ) wanted to join the Germans but after Hitler getting into picture this intention suddenly collapsed(?).

These are just views I found in books and just meant to create discussion as indeed some authors claim Anschluss was not to be as detailed in the beginning as it did.

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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kai-Petri:

Anyway, some logical reasons why he did not want to include Austria :

1. Hate towards Vienna ( not getting into university )

2. In 1919 ( and since )the Austrians (German origin ) wanted to join the Germans but after Hitler getting into picture this intention suddenly collapsed(?).
Both is correct, but neither is any reason. Did Hitler like Prague, Warsaw, or Moscow? This emotion was perfectly irrelevant. Did Hitler ever take care of the population's will?
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Old July 15th, 2005, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Early the same evening he dictated to Seyss-Inquart the telegram which the latter was to send to Berlin requesting the Nazi Government to send German troops to "prevent bloodshed"
"New" evidence maybe (?)

From Hans Fritzsche´s memoirs from the Nuremberg trials he mentions that for the first time it was found out that Seyss-Inquart never sent the help request...

Göring dictated the help request and sent it to Austria, and wanted Seyss-Inquart to send it back. Then Göring thought it was unnecessary and Seyss-Inquart just needed to fax "Yes" and that would be enough, however Seyss-Iquart did not even send this...

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