I'm just reading Peter Kilduffs 'The Red Baron' and in it he makes an interesting comment. As we know Goring eventually commanded JG1 in the final months of WW1 what if Richtofen had not been shot down and went on to lead the Luftwaffe in WW2. Do you think he would have made the mistake Goring did?

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Thoughts on Military History
Cornish Scale Modellers
Ross' Military Modelling and Art

Goring became leader of the Luftwaffe because he was a ruthless Nazi thug. I like to hope that the Red Baron would not be capable of the evil that Goring was capable of. therefore I doubt he would have been made the leader of the Luftwaffe.

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

I think you could look at The other Richtofen and his wartime career in the Luftwaffe. Interesting point, I certainly think it would have been a sounder tactical and strategic mind behind preceedings. As for him being involved, I think it would be a likely possibility, the worlds first fighter ace with the man who is willing and able to rebuild the luftwaffe along the dreams and ideals of the Baron. I should think as in the case of senior army pfficers that he would only be too willing to go along with the 'Nazi Thugs'. He was quite a ruthless individual and Nationalist so his potential in involvement with Hitlar is highly likely as would be Hitlers willingness to bring onboard a national Icon. In terms of the Luftwaffe it would have been a far different creature that he created and the possibilities are endless as to what he may have created given the same events.

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

But he didn't need to a nazi to support them. Just as Red says if the army were willing to support them because they were willing to rebuild the army what would make Richtofen different and his dream of a rebiult Luftwaffe.

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Thoughts on Military History
Cornish Scale Modellers
Ross' Military Modelling and Art

True, but he would need to be a Nazi to be head of the Luftwaffe. It was a political appointment, not a military one.

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

I'll agree that being Luftwaffe commander was a political appointment and we cannot say whether Manfred could have become a nazi or not. And more important, who can say if he would have been a good strategical leader? Shooting down many planes is not a synonim of strategical geniousness.

It could have been much better that his cousin, Lothar would have been Luftwaffe commander. Even that he didn't have enough rank to do so. Göring performed quite fine until the end of the battle of France when he listened to his sub-ordinate generals' suggestions. Maybe if Milch, Udet or Keßelring would have been Luftwaffe commanders the war could have been a little different.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I´ve been reading on Hitler´s attitude towards Göring during the war and it seems that even though after Stalingrad it seems Hitler had had enough of the man, Hitler did not have the courage to dismiss him...?? Quite "interesting" as he by that time was a veteran in giving the sack to the Generals....



But to think Hitler did appoint someone else to Göring´s place after Stalingrad?

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Field marshal Erhard Milch or field marshal wolfram von Richthofen would have been the adequate men. Maybe they could have worked along with Galland's new tactics and Speer's new industrial reforms. Maybe a much more effective Luftwaffe.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

By 1944 Göring had lost the confidence of the people as well so nothing except Hitler´s decision stopped someone else being named instead of Göring!!

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Were the Red Knight to have survived WW1, I don't know if he would have put himself in the same position as Goring did. Socially he probably wouldn't have anything to do with the Nazi's as he was part of the nobility and would consider them little more than street thugs. Goring was different as he was antisemitic and believed in a strong Germany, so the tenants of this German workers party would appeal to him more, especially as the choas in the aftermath of the defreat in WW1 had turned Germany toward anarcy.

The Blue Max

[ 17. September 2003, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: Blue Max ]

Richthofen in Görings place is impossible, for reasons already mentioned. But possibly, he would have made Udet's career, and done the job much better.

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If someone tries to remove the speck in your right eye, will you turn to him the other also?

The single change in leadership would have made little difference. The Luftwaffe's problems ran alot more widely and deep than just with Göring. Everything from failed, myopic doctrine to rigid conventionalism in the technical branch to simply a Western European frame of thinking, if you will (short ranges to be flown, etc.), played a part in the demise of the Luftwaffe.

I hadn't read T.A. Gardner's post before, and now that I do, I completely agree with him. Those are very good and true reasons.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun