Axis

Members: 5,156
Threads: 16,691
Posts: 207,115
Online: 152

Newest Member:
teejay

 
 
 
Go Back   World War II Forums > General Discussion > What If?
Register FAQ Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old November 26th, 2003, 06:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham England
Posts: 18
Ross Hackett is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Speculate this, what would have happened if the Vichy fleet and air resources were ready and prepared for the British visit to Oran and Mers-el-kebir. Would they join the Axis? would they fight? who would win? and what consequences for the British at this crucial period of time Operation Sealion and North African campaign
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old November 26th, 2003, 07:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Flanders
Posts: 844
De Vlaamse Leeuw is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

Does anyone have the numbers of planes and ships that were located in the different ports of the Vichy fleet.

And also about the forces that attacked the Vichy fleet.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old November 26th, 2003, 10:08 PM
Friedrich's Avatar
Ace
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Citizen of the world, though quite misantropic!
Posts: 6,393
Friedrich will become famous soon enough
The British Fleet would have still had superiority but the French (not yet Vichy) would have not been caught by surprise and would have given a fight, inflicting casualties to the Brits and teaching them not to stab in the back your former allies... [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]
__________________
"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old November 27th, 2003, 10:56 PM
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: U. S.
Posts: 3,238
T. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really niceT. A. Gardner is just really nice
Post

There was hardly "surprise" originally. The British in most cases actually sent in a small boat with emmissaries to negotiate with the French command prior to attacking. In most of the cases the French fleet had steam up and were prepared to fight.
As one example, the Strasborug with eight destroyers got underway immediately upon the British attacking and made for open ocean out of Mers el Kebir. She successfully evaded the British along with three of the destroyers and made Toulon Harbor in Vichy France several days later.
The French ships fought back and in most cases to the full extent of their capacity. But, the British had torpedo and dive bombers and the French lacked effective shipboard AA systems and air support from their air forces ashore. The first problem was recognized and would have been corrected in time. The second was a matter of lack of command and control systems among the various commands that prevented successful defense. This problem was the same endemic one that had caused, in large degree, France's fall to begin with.
As far as the Germans went, even when they occupied Vichy territory the French made sure none of their major combatant ships were allowed to fall into German hands intact. The Strasbourg was scuttled for example.
So, in the end, the French fleet was either going to not be available to the British until the reoccupation of North Africa and metropolitian France or, wasn't going to be available at all. The Germans certainly were not going to get their hands on any of the major fleet units intact.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Google
 

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2000 - 2007, the World War II Network, all rights reserved.Ad Management by RedTyger

Allies