Axis

Members: 4,358
Threads: 15,335
Posts: 192,059
Online: 220

Newest Member:
cruse

 
 
 
Go Back   World War II Forums > General Discussion > What If?
Register FAQ Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


What If? Alternate History: Speculate about WWII battles that never were. Could the Axis have won? What if Hitler had the bomb?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 01:29 AM
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: U. S.
Posts: 3,031
T. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the rough
Post

Tony Williams' book The Future War has generated some commentary here and elsewhere on what could have occured from late 1935 to the original beginning of WW II. If you were in that position with one nation (and, knowing that at least some, if not many, other nations had similar knowledge available) what would you recommend they change in their original strategies and technologies?
Now, remember you are still dealing with the original political and military leadership of your chosen nation and should work within those limits.
I'll post my version in a few days after everyone gets a shot at this first. Let's see how inventive we really are....
__________________
Truth is stranger than bullshit!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 07:23 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 269
Tony Williams has a spectacular aura aboutTony Williams has a spectacular aura about
Post

Good idea - but a small correction, it's called 'The Foresight War'. For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, you can read most of the 'run-up' to the war in the first chapter, which is available online from my website.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum
__________________
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 12:14 PM
T. A. Gardner's Avatar
WW2F Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: U. S.
Posts: 3,031
T. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the roughT. A. Gardner is a jewel in the rough
Post

My apologies for the faux pau Tony.
__________________
Truth is stranger than bullshit!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd, 2005, 02:01 PM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 13,287
Kai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the rough
Well, the thing I most have wondered about changing is the French Maginot politics. I know they had put a lot of money into the fortresses but how about creating the powerful tank forces under De Gaulle´s leadership. So if the Germans could get past the Maginot line you could always send the tanks and stop their advance....

Also I think the Italians could do alot better. I don´t know, maybe make better and bigger tanks,get German officers(?) to help in making the Italian officers good leaders, just to start with.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old February 4th, 2005, 03:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 198
Major Destruction is an unknown quantity at this point
Post

If Czeckoslovakia had resisted the German invasion, Germany could not have attacked Poland in 1939. It would have been predicated on the threat or action of strong military intervention by France and strong political motivation by UK and France.

France had no intentions in either direction, so this would have required a political upheaval in France ca 1935 when political provarication in France resulted in a policy of denial.

France needed strong government in 1935 but they did not have it. Support for CZ in 1938 would have denied Germany of the opportunity it took. CZ industry was crucial to the attack on Poland which means that the takeover of CZ is crucial to the defeat of Poland.

Of course we could argue that militarization of the Rhineland was the first step to which an early decisive counter would have defuzed the war forever but I think that would be wishful thinking. Hitler had plans for defense at least until 1952 so any set backs in 1938 would have been minor to his grand theme.

Miltary conflict against CZ would have set back the German timetable by years. Regardless of any political actions by France or UK in the years 1938-1940 what would have been happening in USSR in those years?

With a strong UK/France alliance backed by armed intervention and an increasingly belligerent USSR history would be altered.

I do not believe that USSR would have attacked Germany any more than the weatern European nations would have attacked Germany but if those Nations had soundly punished Hitlers Reich for contraventions of the Versailles Treaty, Germany might have disappeared into an assimilated European Union.

A sound defeat in an invasion of CZ would have discredited Hitlers grizzly gang to a point where Germany would be made to toe the line and integrate into Europe. And CZ was certainly capable of dealing the Germans a deadly blow if only the western allies had supported them.

Of course Anschluss complicated matters slightly.
__________________
If dogs don't go to heaven, I'd like to go where they go.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old February 4th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 13,287
Kai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the rough
Post

As well the possible power takeover by the generals might have taken place in 1938 or at least complicated matters as Hitler would have been forced to dismiss some generals if the coup had failed:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhalder.htm

Halder said that he called off the plot at the eleventh hour when Chamberlain's flight to Berchtesgaden was announced. He decided that if Hitler could get away with this he could get away with anything. Of Munich he said: "Never in history has there been such a betrayal. A country, at least equal to ours, forced to give up the strongest defence line in Europe. How could I have foreseen it?" In his view Germany would have been defeated in three weeks in the event of war.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 30th, 2005, 08:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 38
us11thairborne is an unknown quantity at this point
The war would have had an interesting twist to it, if some smaller nation repressed Nazism, and defeated Hitler's armies, say Czechslovakia, Poland, Belgium or even the Netherlands. The outcome may have been different, and may not have been. Poland not likely at all, but would have been the most interesting if it did hold out to defeat not only the Germans.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 31st, 2005, 11:02 AM
Kai-Petri's Avatar
Kenraali
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kotka, Finland
Posts: 13,287
Kai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the roughKai-Petri is a jewel in the rough
Post

The most interesting twist before the war might have been the Czechs but they were "sold" in the Munich meeting 1938 and had to surrender without a fight. As well , like mentioned, would Halder et co really have tried the coup if war was on its way??

The Polish situation was sealed with the Ribbentrop Molotov pact.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Google
 

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2000 - 2007, the World War II Network, all rights reserved.Ad Management by RedTyger

Allies